Topic: Glass goblets pre-1846 Photograph from The Pencil of Nature - Fox Talbot

[flying free]

I stumbled upon this -
The Pencil of Nature - William Henry Fox Talbot (produced 1844-1846)

Third plate down, plate IV shows a photograph of a number of decanters and goblets older than 1846 (which is when the last one of these books was produced).
Thought someone might be interested - it's also fascinating from a photography point of view as well.

http://nationalmediamuseumblog.wordpress.com/2014/03/27/a-z-of-photography-william-henry-fox-talbots-the-pencil-of-nature/

m

[fontanazul]

if that seems appropriate link: bello
These old photos made me remember the : Dry plares>>
 I found in Kolbenova(Praha)

[Paul S.]

hello m  -  you'll think me ungrateful possibly, but I'm not sure that there's any real value in these pix in view of the (very understandable) lack of definition.       Massive interest re the history of photography, but not so sure about the value to us glass collectors.

Collectors of decanters are catered for very well with Andy McConnell's book (it appears two stoppers have gone walkabout), but don't think I'm seeing the drinking glasses too clearly.
The tumblers on the middle shelf look, possibly, to be pillar moulded, and I'd like to have seen the decoration on the ales on the top shelf.       Do you think you might edit this pix with picasa
But haven't we come a long way since Fox Talbot    

[flying free]

You're right Paul, however I think it's always useful to some degree to have evidence of a shape existing at a certain point in time.
Books are fine, and photos taken now of items deemed to be nearly two hundred years old are all good, but photography or art or 'catalogues/leaflets' of whatever depiction and contemporary to the period of the item, are real evidence of existence in time 

I wondered why for example, the pair had no stoppers?  was it because one had got broken so to make the photo symmetrical he took off the other?  or was it that they are actually quite a lot older than the other decanters on the display hence both stoppers broken over time and as of 1845 missing their stoppers.

But that's because I have no idea about decanters and glasses I guess Do we know if those without stoppers are much older than the others?
m

[Paul S.]

those bottles missing their stoppers look to be fairly typical of decanters from 1830 - 40, so I don't think they're much earlier than this date, if at all, and this is confirmed by the fact that this precise image, with provenance, appears in McConnell's book.      The caption in the book, also confirms the source as being 'The Pencil of Nature' dated 1844, and states that the photograph shows the window display at Apsley Pellat's London showroom, so presumably British pieces.

I've recently bought a book 'City of Laughter - Sex and Satire in Eighteenth Century London'  -  gives a great insight into Georgian and Regency life between from about the middle of the C18 to the end of the Regency - 1830 ish, based on the satirical/political/debauchery issues of the day.
This comes back to the topic of the cartoons and engravings we were discussing with Peter some weeks back - re the illustrations from Rowlandson, Cruikshank and Gillray etc.
In view of the nature of the subjects covered, these illustrations are a marvelous source of contemporary styles of drinking glasses and decanters  -  drinking was a very popular pastime - and helps to confirm the dating of certain shapes etc.

Images do need to be of a certain clarity and sharpness to be of real use.

[flying free]

' Images do need to be of a certain clarity and sharpness to be of real use. '

   they do, agreed, but owt is better than nowt. 
m

[Paul S.]

yes, you're right of course - thanks for the interest and copy of the image............I'd forgotten the pic was in the book.        I wonder for how long he stood on the pavement with the shutter open  

[flying free]

Information on wikipedia on the dry plates process Fontanazul posted earlier in the thread
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_plate

Fontanazul do any of them have pictures of glass on them?
m

[fontanazul]

Fontanazul do any of them have pictures of glass on them?
m

effectively as you know I am very focused on my Czech mnemonic drawings >>
. Dry plates are currently outside the field of research and analysis 

[Paul S.]

have to be honest and say that I missed entirely the three pages of Daniel's art work - which probably says a great deal about my blinkered vision and that I read only the obvious glassy posts.
The cleverness of re-interpreting images and coupling with word play is obviously way over my head  -  but I do understand some of them and will go back and enjoy looking a second time - that's if I can remember

Bearing in mind the date of Fox Talbot's efforts, might his process have been with wet plates, rather than dry??
But whatever, you have to take you hat off to this guy for his perseverance - perhaps this image in question was actually taken inside Pellat's showrooms which would have made life a bit easier than standing out on the pavement.