Topic: Moulded deceptive glass?

[bat20]

Hi all, here is one of those blade knopped glasses,1820ish?,with polished pontil and obviously the bowl is from a mould,it's very thick and i was wondering if it is a deceptive or that  is how they were made and any other information on them anyone might have,thanks very much.

[Paul S.]

It's possible, but I'd suggest the capacity is perhaps too large, and your suggested date of c. 1820 ish too early.  Take it that the bowl is smooth both inside and out??       You don't give the height  -  is it about 4" - 4.5"  -  if so this might be a dram glass or perhaps for port, and I'd have put the date nearer 1850 - 60 possibly, and possibly a pub/tavern glass.

I get the impression that in the earlier years of press/plunger moulding 1840 - 60 it was the slightly pointed plungers that created this internal shape at the bottom of the bowl.        It seems they were popular with pubs and taverns - presumably in view of the lack of weights and measures regulations, short measures were not uncommon. 

press-moulding was the big thing post 1840 ish, a process indicated, in a bowl, by varying thicknesses of glass as in this one, and seams, although these were removed by fire polishing.           Prior to this there was mould-blown glass - one feature of which was that, again for example in a bowl, the glass was normally of uniform thickness.

The bladed knop and polished out pontil scar have too wide a date range to be helpful here, I think.

these are my opinions - let's see what the really clever people think

[bat20]

It's about 3.75" and smooth inside and out with a point in the base so spot on i would think Paul,thanks.On the same subject are these deceptive glasses,i would have said no,but i keep seeing them described as such,they have shear marks to the base.

[KevinH]

I am sure Paul S (and other experts) will give a better explanation than me, but ...

When I wonder if an item might be "deceptive glass", I start with an image of a "Penny Lick" in my mind. (See Paul's info on these here.) A main point is that a deceptive glass should have a noticeably smaller internal volume than is apparently seen from the overall size of the bowl. So using the idea of a penny lick, and then imagining a glass with much thinner walls and rim, I would end up with what could be a "deceptive glass" such as used by toastmasters to avoid taking too much alcohol during proceedings.

I agree that lots of the so-called "deceptive glasses" seen on the internet and elsewhere, are "not as described".

[oldglassman]

  Hi,
            A few deceptive glasses ,

cheers ,
                 Peter.

[bat20]

Thanks for the input everyone,can't think of a nicer way to spend a windy wet Sunday than discussing glasses and wow Peter!, they are beautiful,my last chance i'm afraid is this 6.75" ale glass?it is very heavy and probably for pubs,but i feel it could be.

[Paul S.]

don't you just feel so sorry for the toastmaster  -  never getting a proper drink

As Kevin has said  -  and shown in Peter's glasses  -  it's the capacity of the bowl rather than the overall size of the glass that is the deciding factor.           You can see from the date indicated by Peter quite how far they go back  -  and 1700 must be one of the earliest.

The two small conical shaped bowls are drams, and most definitely not deceptive, neither is the ale.
Presumably, sellers who are describing such glasses wrongly, are using word association again to improve their chances of a sale.

Carry on looking, am sure you'll find one sooner or later.

[Paul S.]

meant to acknowledge Peter's contribution on this one a bit better  -  if you knew something about C18 glasses, you'll know how special they are............   probably doesn't use these though  -  capacity is too small.

[bat20]

Thanks again,all of my glasses above were boot fair and were not described as deceptives and the ale was a fiver from nice little antique shop, again no description ,but i have to admit to thinking the ale was one when i came across it.