Topic: Help I.D'ing A Smashing Baccarat? Charity shop find!

[Stringofpearls]

Good morning peeps! Cracking day here in Sunny Crosby.
I bought this on Friday in my local charity shop, it cost £1.50!!!!!!!!
As soon as I saw the etched backstamp of a 'B' I assumed it was going to be BACCARAT.
Can any kind soul have a good look at the photos and see if they recognise the pattern.
The decanter is round with 5 bands of diamond cuts on the base and with 10 cut facets on the neck. The base decanter unit is etched with a B and then what I assume are  date letters/numbers. I have not been able to capture it on film so I've drawn an exact copy. To my eye it looks like a PG one way or the other...possibly an unfinished 3 or 5 and a 1 with a blob tail ...really confusing, so possibly 31 or 51? Given that it's etched with a B rather than the normal or current mark would this be an 19thC decanter or earlier? After a few Cognacs my lay mind muses whether it could be according to our timeline 'Georgian'? Does anyone know when the B gave way to the current style stamp?
I'm not altogether positive the stopper is right. Its not signed or marked. It does give a very French 'Fleur de lys' sort of look to it but it sits about 2-3 mm too deep in my opinion, below the frosted inner stopper band and therefore looks a bit squat. If this isn't the right stopper it wouldn't surprise me that the original was this shape, but the replacement just not matched perfectly? still, could be the right one...
I have seen this 5 diamond cut banding on a design called LODI 1949-61 but I haven't seen if the decanter has a faceted neck.
As always any thoughts, suggestions , help you can give, even with reference points for me to further my investigations would be gratefully received
Thanks Simon

[Stringofpearls]

Missed a photo off. sorry
Simon

[Ivo]

Awwww. Baccarat uses a circular etched mark with a decanter and two glasses on it so it is unlikely your decanter, however nice, was made by Baccarat. The mark you describe could be the match mark between stopper and decanter?  Check the underside of the stopper, it may have the same marking.

[Paul S.]

the decoration on your body is cut  -  although the stopper looks to be moulded  -  can't see to clearly and could be wrong on that........   but if that is correct then yes, you could be right and the stopper may well be a replacement.          If it's the original, then the fit should be very good - even a slight wobble indicates it's wrong.
Ivo is correct re the mark, and if this were part of the matching No. then you should find this mark repeated somewhere on the stub or neck of the stopper  -  they can be quite sloppy often, and lack accuracy of shape.
However, if it is etched as you are saying then I doubt it's that  .............  and more likely to be a makers or retailers mark.
Matching Nos. - as far as I'm aware - are produced by means of a stylus, and therefore scratched onto the glass, and appear on quality bottles rather than those of lesser grade.

shape wise this looks to be somewhere between an Indian club and a bludgeon, but I suspect just a bludgeon  -  there are so many slight variations on a theme with these things - and made over a very long period of time, with the main names shapes being copied by succeeding centuries.                  As you can imagine, decanters come in a vast array of named shapes and sizes and not always easy to pigeon hole a given variety.

If the inside is clear without staining, the cutting is in good condition and the base lacks wear, then you probably have a C20 bottle rather than earlier............     but for £1.50 it's a great buy  -  so clean it, use it and you have an excuse to now start collecting decanters...............   they're a very interesting area of glass.

[Stringofpearls]

Thank you both so much, I was under the impression, obviously wrongly that the mark or backstamp you refer to was only etched on their glassware from around the 1930's, c1936 and that prior to that date some pieces were etched with a B. Thus making this a pre 1936 date.

 Your spot on with the decanter lid, I didn't at first make the connection , it is in fact moulded so its definitely the wrong stopper.
 The date mark or whatever it may be is scratched onto the glass with a stylus whereas the B is definitely etched.

[Paul S.]

here's one from this morning's charity shop - so dirty that I didn't see the damage to the stopper, but cylinders are less common than other shapes, and a nice bottle, so not a total failure.        I rather like the slightly hidden, but nice touch of cut panels just under the rim.
But, not only didn't I see the damage I also didn't spot the different matching Nos.   as you can see from the pix. showing a fig. 2 on the neck and fig. 5 on the stopper - and since the stopper does wobble very slightly I should have realized.              So we all make mistakes.

Cylinders go back a longish way, although this sort with pillars and the hexagonal sort of mushroom shaped stopper were popular around 1825 - 1840 apparently - and differ from Prussians by (rather obviously) their cylindrical shape rather than coming in a little at the base. 

When this one was made I've no idea  -  with my luck and the wrong stopper etc. it's probably a C20 copy.

[Anne]

Simon, I just wanted to check the etched mark as it's quite small on your photo and I can't make out the detail. Is it a proper joined-up B or is it a stencil-type one like this?
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,59800.msg337736.html#msg337736

[Stringofpearls]

Gosh your good Anne. It's exactly the same as the link photo, effectively an m underlined. Does this mean a webb Corbett seconds?

[Anne]

I'd say that's highly likely, Simon.