Topic: Pressed glass cruciform candlestick RD 520794 – registrant please?

[agincourt17]

A press-moulded cruciform candlestick in opaque black glass; 3¾ inches tall and just over 3 inches diameter at the base. Embossed Rd. No. 520794 to the underside of the base.

(Permission for the re-use of these images on the GMB granted by M.R. Church).

I can’t recall seeing another example before.

RD 520794 is too late for the ‘Blue Book’, but according to Jenny Thompson’s list of RD numbers the registration date should be between the 25th and 28th February 1907.

Does anyone know who the registrant is, please?

Does anyone have photos of this candlestick in other colours to show, please?

Fred. 

[Paul S.]

I think the correct year Fred should be 1908, although the day/month is o.k.  -  and had this Registration been processed in the normal way, it would have occurred as the penultimate item in Thompson's original volume covering 1842 - 1908, so not quite too late.             But.............   for some reason it has been omitted  -  either it's another CLASS IV item, or Jenny Thompson overlooked it.

I will include it in my next visit to TNA, but can't guarantee when that will be.

[agincourt17]

Thank you, Paul.

You are quite correct - the registration date should be late February 1908.

The opening RD number in the Blue Book is RD 520915 of 29 February 1908.

Fred.

[agincourt17]

Here are some photos of a black press-moulded glass candlestick, the underside of the base bearing the embossed Rd. No. 520794. An unusual feature of this item is the cross piece about two-thirds of the way up the shaft. I’m afraid that I don’t have any dimensions for the candlestick.

(Permission to re-use these images on the GMB granted by M.R. Church).

RD 520794 should have been registered in February 1908, but it does not seem to be in any of the standard references for glass design registrations.

Can anyone supply me with the registration details (registrant and registration date) for this design, please?

Is this another ‘mystery’ design that was registered in some registration Class other than glass?

I can’t recall having seen this candlestick pattern before. Does anyone else have one to show with dimensions (especially in other colours)?

Fred.

[Paul S.]

not the proper Register book since you'll notice it lacks the Registrants details  -  and regret the nearest I can get to the actual date of Registration is February 1908  -  obviously not working well on that day  -  and the usual reason for absence in the book lists i.e. it's CLASS IV.            However, we can at least see from the Representation that the Registrant was Burtles Tate.
trust pix o.k.

[agincourt17]

Thank you very much, Paul – the pix are fine.

Interesting that, in the design representation, the reeding on the candleholder cup extends down the shaft to the crosspiece, whereas the actual item is lacking that reeding.

More importantly, though, this Burtles, Tate & Co. design registration isn’t mentioned in Neil Harris’s website at
https://sites.google.com/site/molwebbhistory/Home/registered-designs/burtles-tate-designs-by-date/burtles-tate-1908-1914
nor does it appear in any of the standard lists of registered glass designs (presumably, as Paul says, because the design was registered as Class IV rather than Class III).

I think that this is quite a noteworthy discovery of a ‘new’ design registration from an established British glass manufacturer, and wonder if this topic thread will lead to the ‘discovery’ of different colourways.

I shall be posting photos of some more pieces from ‘elusive’ registered designs over the next few days in the hope that their registration details will be revealed on the GMB for the first time.

Fred.

[Anne]

Dup topics merged. Will sort rest out later, am in need of sleep.

[Paul S.]

thanks very much for sorting Anne.

Post February 1884 i.e. after the lozenge years, almost all Registrations - from the total of thirteen categories - are grouped in the same Representations Books, and there are a number of them........   and anyone going through the books systematically would find all glass Registrations no matter what CLASS they were entered under.     It's a shame that this 'mixing' of CLASSES was approved - obviously it's so much easier to search when you have one CLASS (material) per book as was the case prior to 1884.              It's a situation that possibly came about due to the vast increasing quantity of inventions throughout all the utility materials of wood, glass, linen, lace, ceramics, metal etc. in the latter part of the C19.         

It is tempting to short circuit the process, and investigate only those Nos. shown in the Blue Book - which is possibly how Neil may have compiled his Burtles Tate list .........   thus missing 'wayward' Registrations such as this cruciform candlestick example, but having said that I'm unsure as to how the contents of the Blue Book were put together.
It is extremely time consuming to turn every page in some of the Representations Books  -  some of the older volumes are exceptionally heavy, and a trolley service is offered to readers who lack stamina - it's easy to understand that the prohibitively time consuming process of pouring over every volume, can deter people from thorough investigations.             
Registrations for later years are easier in the sense that ledgers are dispensed with and all of the photos - with stiff card backing - are contained within strong paper envelopes  -  which makes it less arduous physically, but since there are fewer items per envelope then it increases the toing and froing requests to the workers at Kew.

I suspect there are only a few glass items entered under CLASS IV (compared with the overall quantity of CLASS III Registrations), but unless all pages of the Registers are viewed by researchers then there is the potential to miss a glass item classified wrongly as CLASS IV.            It appears possible that the Blue Book list may have been compiled in some way from CLASS III items only.

Looking forward to seeing some of Fred's 'elusive' (presumably CLASS IV) designs in the coming days - I've asked Kew to keep my seat warm

[agincourt17]

Duplication well spotted, Anne - I'd quite forgotten that I had posted this topic before. (Memo to myself to use the GMB search facility more assiduously).

It even answers my own question as to the dimensions of the piece!

Paul has provided the definitive answer yet again - a great result.

Fred.