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Author Topic: Rare Copeland RD 261532 pedestal bowl of 28 March 1872  (Read 2205 times)

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Offline Anne

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Re: Rare Copeland RD 261532 pedestal bowl of 28 March 1872
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2016, 06:52:26 PM »
Done for you Fred. (I did it hours ago Kev, and then didn't reply as I was working on the rest of this missive!)  It's the S with the line through it in the editing pane that caused it, instead of having an open tag and a closing tag it had 2 opening tags, so formatted as strikethrough all the text. As I can't see where you'd have used the strikethrough anyhow in that post I'm guessing it's an accidental catch, perhaps instead of Italic or Bold formatting?

I am quite sure from what I found last night, that WT Copeland is correct and WJ Copeland is a transcription error which has been widely shared on without being checked. (Even some places that ought to know better!)  This is why I went back to contemporary sources.  Other RD nos. registered to Copeland in respect of their ceramic designs (in Class 4) are not consistent, some are shown as WT and others as WJ - it looks simply to be a matter of whoever is (mis)reading the handwritten script.  (I have spent much time over the years reading old records and transcribing old handwritten Wills for our genealogy project, so it's something I am very familiar with.)

M, the service you found the image of by the Alderman is wonderful, thank you. Yes it's the same person as the one in the London Gazette notices, he was part of the 160 New Bond Street and Stoke business and it was probably a news/promo image for them.  Wikipedia has a potted bio of W T Copeland (Alderman and Lord Mayor of London) here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Taylor_Copeland which also details his pottery business and his sons as per the LG notices above.

Going back to the question of why Copeland made what appears to be a "sole registered design for press-moulded glassware", perhaps it was a toe in the water exercise, or perhaps the design copied something cut that they had exhibited and done well with, and thought there may be a market in "the cheap seats" for a pressed glass version? It's a puzzler surely.

As to which glassworks may have made for Copeland's, I've found that one of the Copeland family (a cousin named William Copeland Astbury), who worked at some time for the family business, kept a diary which is indexed online (the whole text isn't freely online, it's available as a paid for download in 9 volumes). Searching the index brought no results for the term glass, but browsing it did!  Just two entries - one for the expected Webb & Co (vol/page 2/154; 8/21) Glass,  and the other for a glass manufacturer called John Blades of 5 Ludgate Hill (vol/page 1/301; 7/143) Glass manufacturer, d1829. Owner of Severndroog Castle. He was another big name in the City of London. Kent's Directory for the Year 1794. Cities of London and Westminster, & Borough of Southwark  gives him as Blades John 5, Ludgate Hill Glass Manufactory, whilst http://www.glassmaking-in-london.co.uk/WorkingPremadeGlass gives him as
Blades (John.) & Jones (Francis.) (Early 19th century.) London.
Manufacturers & exporters of hand-blown & heavily-cut Georgian & Regency glassware. Royal Warrants to the British & Persian courts.


What caught my eye in the latter was the name Jones again, which was mentioned in Fred's original post
Quote
http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O6259/the-copeland-vase-vase-jones-j/
lists an engraved glass vase made by “Copeland about 1872-1873”. This vase won a Bronze Medal at the Vienna Exhibition of 1873 where Sir Richard Wallace bought it. J. Jones, an artist employed by the COPELAND GLASSWORKS IN LONDON [my emphasis], made the original design, which consisted of intricate flowing lines known as arabesques. There is a copy of it in the V&A collections. The decoration on the finished piece shows that Paul Oppitz, who engraved the design on the vase, added some fine detail and the winged beasts to the original design.

What also interested me was that after the death of John Blades in 1829, the company carried on business as Crook and Jones, and later as Jones and Sons.  Is this a coincidence, or is the Jones "working" for Copeland one of the Jones of Jones and Sons? Is the term "working" used here in the same way as it appeared to be for Paul Oppitz "working" for Copeland, when he was clearly a freelance engraver who lived and worked in London from his immigration until his death? 

PS in case anyone is further interested in Paul Oppitz trivia, the substantial house he built for himself at 24 Vardens Road, Battersea - named Paulinzell - is still there and looks pretty much the same as when built. Paul Oppitz also had a brother Ferdinand who lived in London, having come with him from Bohemia in 1845, and he too was a master glass engraver, as had been their father and grandfather, and their mother was a glass finisher of some kind - perhaps a painter or gilder?
Cheers! Anne, da tekniqual wizzerd
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Offline agincourt17

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Re: Rare Copeland RD 261532 pedestal bowl of 28 March 1872
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2016, 10:17:14 PM »
Thank you, Anne and Kevin, for your magic touch with the formatting.

The 'transcription errors' trap illustrates well the problem of relying on secondary sources for research, unleashing the potential for a self-perpetuating 'Chinese Whispers' scenario.

What I find fascinating is that documenting a seemingly nondescript piece of mid-Victorian press-moulded domestic tableware can lead to so many different aspects of social and industrial history, and that even with the power of the internet for collecting and collating information from disparate sources, there are many avenues for research still unexplored.

Fred.

Offline flying free

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Re: Rare Copeland RD 261532 pedestal bowl of 28 March 1872
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2016, 11:21:07 PM »
the pressed glass bowl doesn't sit well with this mirror executed by Alderman Copeland of Stoke and New Bond St for the palace of the Sultan on the Bosphorous though  :-\
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Print-1858-Stove-Mantelpiece-Looking-Glass-Sultan-Turkey-Alderman-Copel-075P133-/351657312361?hash=item51e068c069

source:  Illustrated London News July 24th 1858.

Very curious diversity in manufacturing.
Frankly very strange to try and work out the  target market for their business. 
m

Offline Paul S.

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Re: Rare Copeland RD 261532 pedestal bowl of 28 March 1872
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2016, 10:21:41 PM »
whilst ordinarily I'm a big fan of C19 copperplate script  -  this is one of those rare occasions when florid cursive script and heavy serifs doesn't do us any favours with legibility.
I've attached picture of part of the page, from the Kew records of Register BT 44.7  - the single book for the period 1842 - 1882 - which includes 28th March 1872, and covering the Copeland Rd. 261532.

Certainly the mystery upper case letter, in Copeland's name in the Register, doesn't look very much like the initial 'T' as in Burtles and Derbyshire's names on the same page, so is it possible this might indicate that the clerk who wrote in the Register in 1872 entered 'J' not realizing he was in fact wrong  -  that's assuming he was wrong.             The more I look at the clerk's writing, the more the mystery letter looks less like an upper case 'T'  -  but this only my opinion.

Of course, I have my original camera pix on the screen, and when viewed after Picasa editing and without re-sizing they appear very large, bright, and very clear.............    unfortunately the constraints of the GMB picture size, plus the need to watermark, means that the end result which you see is a vastly less than desirable image.              About this I can do nothing other than apologise - however, I can offer to provide TNA address should anyone wish to visit and see this page in the flesh ;)

Regret this not conclusive.


Offline flying free

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Re: Rare Copeland RD 261532 pedestal bowl of 28 March 1872
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2016, 10:34:42 PM »
Agree - however,  it does look quite like the T initial before Derbyshire in the entry that falls right near the bottom behind your watermark doesn't it? Or is that actually supposed to be a J?
Perhaps the scribe was confused so did an approximation of either initial so  couldn't be accused of getting it wrong?

m

Offline agincourt17

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Re: Rare Copeland RD 261532 pedestal bowl of 28 March 1872
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2016, 11:29:05 AM »
Thank you for the photo of the registry entry, Paul.

Certainly clearer than the entry in Thompson (page 108) but the ambiguity regarding the transcription obviously remains unresolved.

Fred.

 

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