Topic: Dating a Port or Wine glass

[flying free]

I know nothing at all about these glasses but can you describe the rim /lip of the glass please?
Is it folded? or cut and polished?  it's probably just the photos making it look like that somehow (and given I have no idea about these things  ) but it just looked a bit odd in the photos.
And if you amend you photos to size pixels 600x400 they should fit and should enlarge enough for detail to be seen

thanks
m

[Paul S.]

I'd rather go with the 'wine' suggestion I think.            This overall shape, with the annular knop and bucket bowl, and with or without the folded foot, must be one of the most common shapes of small drinking glasses, and occurs across the spectrum of good and bad quality pieces.

bat has already mentioned the prolonged appearance of the folded foot, so my opinion is this feature not too much help with this particular glass, although granted the foot appears rather 'high' which ordinarily suggests C18, but not on this occasion in my opinion.
John Brooks has commented ........"The thing to bear in mind is the style of the whole glass, particularly the bowl,.  "Where rummer shapes are copied, that should establish the date with certainty."        He's referring here to the commonly seen - but of course much larger - bucket shaped rummer with a single bladed or annular knop which was popular in the first quarter of the C19.
This style is also a shape that is almost impossible to find in Bickerton  -  except, of course, on an early C19 Rummer.

There's no mistaking the lead glass 'ring', so if this not present, then this could be another reason for thinking this one is more likely to be first quarter of C19.
Of course these comments are mostly just my opinion  -  others may have a better idea.

Ref. 'The Arthur Negus Guide to British Glass'  -  John Brooks  -  1981.

[Laird]

The rim folds outwards, and there is a high note ping.

[bat20]

The only one I thought came close in Bickerton was photo 150,6.5" wine glass with RF bowl(round funnel),.I think at 11cm this glass may be a port glass perhaps gin?.The foot seems high reminding me of liege glass although they are leaded with interesting textured bowls,so maybe another French glass house if it's soda glass ,or with little lead.Sorry to muck you about laird ,although this floundering about is a good way to pick stuff up even if it's not relevant to your glass.

[Paul S.]

perhaps there's an edition variation here?............   my photo 150 (page 89) shows a wine with 'nipt diamond waies' - obviously nothing to do with the glass posted here.                Is your copy the 1971 first, or the 1986 revised?                  Of course you may well be correct, there is no really certain way of determining origin, easily.

there may be some confusion here  -  to my eyes the top rim doesn't have a fold - at least not in the usual similar way that feet have a fold

[Laird]

Fold is perhaps the wrong way to describe it. I don't have the technical vocabulary when it comes to glass.
It is clearly not a fold, but when I run my fingers round the rim I can feel it extending outwards, like a ridge.
Sorry it's causing such difficulty. I thought it was probably a standard 18th century drinking glass, and I would like to pinpoint if possible just when it was likely to have been made. I based my dating on something I read that 18th century drinking glasses of this type could have a smoky grey tinge, like this one.

[bat20]

It's the 72 American edition Paul and the photo section hasn't page numbers.

[Paul S.]

top rim not folded then  ........    possibly described as slightly everted or turned outward.

sorry, no idea of the U.S. edition - but I don't see a glass quite like this in my U.K. copy of Bickerton  -  however, am inclined to revise my description of the bowl shape to 'round funnel' perhaps, or maybe transitional and part way toward a bucket shape - and yes, possibly Continental.
Difficulties not a problem  - it's just that 'pinpointing' is usually asking for a little too much precision   -  most of the time dating to within a couple of decades is about as near as you will get.              Style, fashion etc. are driven by a variety of reasons and most of the categories into which drinking glasses fall - folded feet for example - overlap in terms of time lines, often by a wide margin, so not too difficult to make a mistake when dating on the basis of a single feature.       
Sharp pontil scars exist durng the first 60 or so years of the C18, then tend to fall away, but  -  they exist not uncommonly on some glasses made in the C19, and 'smokey grey tinges' alone could be misleading.

Aside from the folded foot, this glass lacks other features to help with dating, so you may find it difficult to make further progress.    As we've discussed, this was a common shape which no doubt lasted for some considerable time, and I'm still inclined to go for first quarter C19 - but am always ready to stand corrected.

[flying free]

Just a question, if Laird can feel a ridge when she/he runs her/his finger around the lip or the rim of the bowl, could that mean it has been cut and polished? Sorry, as I say, I shouldn't take part when I know nothing about this type of glass but I'm just wondering if the glass has been cut down maybe-   

Feel free to tell me to bow out 
m

[bat20]

It's in the Balustroids section and just has things about it slightly similar,it has a shoulder knop and a centre one,right next to it is another glass with a annular knop and ogee bowl.It also has a small basal knop and I'm just wondering if there's a hint of one on Lairds glass?.Got to agree with you Paul on the grey colour ,that could mean all sorts!?