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Author Topic: Stuart Crystal...or not Paul S  (Read 3740 times)

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Offline petet63

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Stuart Crystal...or not Paul S
« on: March 31, 2018, 05:00:08 PM »
Hi all. I have a puzzler. I would appreciate some of your views. I have sold a lot of crystal so when this glass and 2 others sold I was very surprised to have the buyer tell me that these are 'Fakes' and not Stuart Crystal. Part of their message
                         ....As you can see, the shape of the fuschia is very different. Our ones have longer petals and the top horizontal cut on the flowers are 'lip shaped', whereas on your ones the petals are much shorter and the horizontal cuts are straight. The cuts are generally cruder on your glasses.The Stuart mark is on the edge of the rim whereas ours are underneath the base in the centre. The stem is different as it meets the base and the vertical stem cuts go much higher on our glasses. The base is much thicker whereas our bases are quite thin at the rim. The glass is much thicker overall than our glasses. Also the pattern of the flowers are different even between each of the 3 of your glasses, whereas ours are all exactly the same.

    I had no problem with them returning the glasses as I know these are Stuart and of good quality and probably made later than theirs by different people, different cutter etc that is usual with hand made and hand cut crystal. The mark is one I have seen on Stuart, they have a few, and the glasses are of the same quality to boxed sets I have had. I just can't get it out of my head. I feel I am being accused of wrong doing!  Why anyone would go to the trouble of Faking Stuart crystal I don't know. The skills needed to produce these would be sold in their own right...
 






 
Pete. :-)

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Stuart Crystal...or not Paul S
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2018, 06:29:30 PM »
Hi  -  sorry to hear of the problems.                 

Firstly to say I've no knowledge as to whether this Stuart pattern, or any others for that matter have been copied in recent times  -  I simply don't collect these modern drinking glasses.

We've had a similar situation in recent times - discussed on the GMB - involving a named pattern from Edinburgh Crystal, where that buyer was equally adamant that the items they received from the seller, whilst described as the same pattern, were sufficiently different in appearance to make the buyer believe the glasses were not the design they ordered.
In that instance - and possibly with this case too - the problem was caused by the glasses in question being manufactured in another country.
Edinburgh Crystal became Edinburgh International, and their work was outsourced to Czechoslovakia, and the appearance of the pattern in question seems to have changed more than expected - not a problem until you want to make up a set should some have been broken etc.
Do you have the original packaging Pete  -  do you know where your glasses were made?

How do your glasses compare with the Replacements.com site for this Stuart pattern, which presumably is called Fuschia.        Did Stuart produce more than one pattern with fuschia wheel engraving etc.?             Believe this backstamp is the most recent one, so certainly not old glasses.

There probably was a time when the appearance of named designs changed very little, and dimensions of the glasses remained constant, but in this throw away age, standards simply aren't what they used to be, and perhaps even the introduction of additional mechanical process, has had the effect of altering appearances.

Assume all of the pix we see are of your glasses, and none shows the buyers pieces, so we unable to make comparisons.       You'll understand that it's probably not appropriate for us to act as arbitrators in these situations  -  however, you've done the correct thing and refunded the buyer, and would suggest you don't berate yourself - from what you've said it appears there was no intentions to deceive.         Regret my reply lacks any positive answer for you, and this may remain an unresolved issue.
Hindsight is easy, but it might be worthwhile in future similar situations to send buyers images of exactly what it is that you're going to send them  -  but think most folk here would agree there's not been any attempt to deceive.

Let's see if others can contribute something more positive and useful. :)   

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Offline keith

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Re: Stuart Crystal...or not Paul S
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2018, 07:00:07 PM »
I have a few of the Jasper Conran designs for Stuart, they have the same mark as yours and are on the rim also, into the 2,000s if I remember right so late production, best I can do  ::) ;D ;D

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Offline Lustrousstone

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Re: Stuart Crystal...or not Paul S
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2018, 07:25:35 PM »
I suspect it's just a when made thing; it's a pretty long running pattern and, as said, not exactly one worth faking

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Offline brucebanner

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Re: Stuart Crystal...or not Paul S
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2018, 07:50:10 PM »
Kinver Crystal made an almost identical pattern as do Brierley Crystal which are still being sold in the Stuart shop.
Chris Parry

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Offline keith

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Re: Stuart Crystal...or not Paul S
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2018, 11:00:55 PM »
One of my Stuart 'Conran' pieces, a large 'wine' glass..... not sure what the number 2 is for.

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Offline petet63

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Re: Stuart Crystal...or not Paul S
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2018, 05:32:14 PM »
Most helpful Paul. Here is a picture of the Stuart Pattern. The photos I supplied are the photos used to sell the glasses.Stuart call this 'Cascade' and as mentioned it is done by a few companies. Royal Brierley have the Fuchsia name on theirs. You are right that if they were to be replacements for an older set they will differ due to Time, Maker, Country, Cutter etc. These are quality glasses and as it seems to be with more modern crystal they are heavier set than they used to be. Made elsewhere as you pointed out they may not have similar quality control. I handle a lot of Crystal and have seen variations aplenty in Edinburgh. They are made in 3 or 4 countries now Hungary and France etc. I think I was doubting my own knowledge and needed clarification which you and other comments have given.
   I take things personally and shouldn't. I have only had 3 Crystal Glass returns in the last 4 years ( me-1, Buyer-1 Global Bl**dy Shipping-1) so I let this get to me.
  Thanks Keith, Bruce and Lustrousstone, I have seen this and hundreds of other Stuart marks all around the edge. Earlier ones had more Central marks and the majority are on the outer edge now and more visible for obvious reasons.
    Thanks again Paul.

Mod: Image removed on request of poster
Pete. :-)

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Stuart Crystal...or not Paul S
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2018, 06:48:20 PM »
you may have a problem with Kevin, Pete, if that drawn image is from Replacements.com ;D   -  our Mod. is keen to  uphold copyright, but on the other hand it may be your own picture.

anyway, lesson learned, so onward and upward as they say.

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Offline Anne

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Re: Stuart Crystal...or not Paul S
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2018, 04:08:46 AM »
Royal Brierley Fuchsia pattern has 5 7 stamens not 3 like the Stuart Cascade design. I have marked examples of both.

Edited to correct my error.
Cheers! Anne, da tekniqual wizzerd
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Offline petet63

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Re: Stuart Crystal...or not Paul S
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2018, 09:05:07 AM »
Replacements have a number of my photos on their site but have asked the moderator to delete it. I have had a few of the Royal Brierley patterns and think they go the extra mile with their Flower Cuts. Never not sold a piece of their Flower cuts. Honeysuckle is one of the best. Thanks all
Pete. :-)

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