No-one likes general adverts, and ours hadn't been updated for ages, so we're having a clear-out and a change round to make the new ones useful to you. These new adverts bring in a small amount to help pay for the board and keep it free for you to use, so please do use them whenever you can, Let our links help you find great books on glass or a new piece for your collection. Thank you for supporting the Board.

Author Topic: Think I might have made a mistake...  (Read 2278 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Helen W.

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 130
  • I'm new, please be gentle
    • 20th C. Still refining!
    • UK
Think I might have made a mistake...
« on: September 07, 2018, 05:39:54 PM »
Hello again lovely people

I managed to knock the seller down quite a bit on this one, but now that it's arrived, I'm doubting my decision to buy. This mould-blown vase with colourless casing carried a very hopeful attribution to Keith Murray.  ::) I still thought it likely to be a pre-war English-made piece with interesting optical effects.

However, the colouring of the glass is all wrong. It's uneven, and there is a good deal of streaking between the oblong bubbles. The glass itself has a lot of fine bubbling and it doesn't appear to be good quality, though it's a heavy piece. It just doesn't 'feel' right. The optical effects are indeed interesting, so there's that...

Any ideas?

Pics below. You might just be able to make out a pale inclusion in the glass on the photo of the base, and the base has quite a bit of wear. My camera has developed a fault, so I won't be able provide any more pics just now.

Dimensions: weight 2575g; height 11.75" or 29.7cm; rim diameter 6.5" or 16.4cm; foot diameter 4.25" or 11cm.

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline keith

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 7204
Re: Think I might have made a mistake...
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2018, 11:01:08 PM »
Nothing similar in my Murray design book, is that a polished pontil mark ?

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline Helen W.

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 130
  • I'm new, please be gentle
    • 20th C. Still refining!
    • UK
Re: Think I might have made a mistake...
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2018, 05:12:48 AM »
I didn't believe the KM attribution, so I negotiated a price much lower than the original.  I just thought the vase was likely to be an interesting 1930s piece. On the other hand, I haven't found a comprehensive source of info on KM's glass designs. I've looked through Johnson/Perrot, Hadjamach, Dodsworth etc. I'd be interested to know whether there's a design book I'm missing.

There is an off-centre, irregular, slight circular depression on the base, which might be what remains of a pontil mark. I was trying to take a better photo of the base when my camera stopped working (suspect it is just out of guarantee).

Plenty of photos were provided before I bought from a certain auction site, but none showed the fact that the bubble pattern doesn't 'join' properly on part of the vase.

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline The Glass Staircase

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 234
  • I'm new, please be gentle
    • Scotland
Re: Think I might have made a mistake...
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2018, 07:29:09 AM »
Looks good quality, not sure how much you paid but if you expect perfect pieces expect to pay a premium.  Look's like a graal or ariel technique or something similar

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline chopin-liszt

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 14495
    • Scotland, Europe.
Re: Think I might have made a mistake...
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2018, 11:04:51 AM »
It looks very ariel to me too - you can't expect that to be perfect, especially with some age to it. But I would strongly suspect Bohemian.
I wouldn't be bothered about Keith Murray or design books, I'd just be in awe of having something with ariel in it. I'd like to know the maker as well, but I'd really just be happy to have it.  :)
Cheers, Sue M. (she/her)

Earth without art is just eh.

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline Helen W.

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 130
  • I'm new, please be gentle
    • 20th C. Still refining!
    • UK
Re: Think I might have made a mistake...
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2018, 11:11:38 AM »
I've never seen graal or ariel pieces, except through the glass of a display cabinet, years ago. But I've handled enough English pre-war glass to know there is something 'off' about this vase, interesting though it is. The pigment has been applied unevenly, apparently at the time of moulding. The batch it was made from does not appear to have been coloured in the mass.

My camera seems to have got over its intermittent fault, so I've attached more photos.

By the way, I know I should pay a high price for premium glassware. I didn't diddle the seller; I knocked him down because I considered his Murray attribution, on which he was basing his price, to be extremely hopeful on his part.

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline Helen W.

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 130
  • I'm new, please be gentle
    • 20th C. Still refining!
    • UK
Re: Think I might have made a mistake...
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2018, 11:12:56 AM »
Sue, could you look at my reply above, posted while you left your comment, and the extra pics. Thanks.

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline Helen W.

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 130
  • I'm new, please be gentle
    • 20th C. Still refining!
    • UK
Re: Think I might have made a mistake...
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2018, 11:19:29 AM »
PS.

Sue, I've never heard of Czech ariel. Do you have any more info?

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline Helen W.

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 130
  • I'm new, please be gentle
    • 20th C. Still refining!
    • UK
Re: Think I might have made a mistake...
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2018, 11:43:08 AM »
Perhaps whoever is responsible for such things on the forum could remove this post. The last thing I want to do is to start a discussion which becomes contentious.

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline chopin-liszt

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 14495
    • Scotland, Europe.
Re: Think I might have made a mistake...
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2018, 11:59:49 AM »
No, I'm afraid not. There is still a ton of stuff we don't know anything about, the Czech factories were working full out and doing all sorts of interesting and experimental things, we still need to find out about.
They had financial resources, they could do lots of experimentation.
There are really complex pressed pieces we still cannot identify - moulds are expensive, complicated and difficult things to make, but they could afford to make them and sometimes not even end up using them much. ???

That's why I'm thinking Bohemian. If they were trying to mass produce something complex, such as ariel, it could easily come out as a bit "off" as you say.

I have had a large bucket in a very strange browny sort of amethyst shade, (all a bit varied in depth too!) engraved with dragonflies. It too, was in some way a little "off", but purely, I think, from the matter of mass producing something difficult or labour intensive.
The etching/cutting was unique, in being hand done, but done from master patterns. Mitre cuts here, a few rondels there, assemble into basic dragonfly shape. (I've seen pattern books that show how to assemble insects and foliage from certain cuts.) So anybody could have done them, it didn't have to be an artist.
This vase of yours is really, really reminding me of that bucket, which I ended up assuming to be Czech/Bohemian.

ps. I don't think you were being contentious, it's just the way the written word can come over, sometimes.  :-*
The Glass Staircase doesn't know how much or how little you know and was only trying to help a newbie with some basics.  :)
I can see where you're coming from with the price you and the seller both did agree on. A Keith Murray premium would not have been appropriate.
But it is a lovely and interesting thing to have.

pps. I've got some pics of my dragonfly bucket.
Cheers, Sue M. (she/her)

Earth without art is just eh.

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk
Visit the Glass Encyclopedia
link to glass encyclopedia
Visit the Online Glass Museum
link to glass museum


This website is provided by Angela Bowey, PO Box 113, Paihia 0247, New Zealand