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Author Topic: Japanese Vase?  (Read 1883 times)

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Offline tmmorg

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Japanese Vase?
« on: July 05, 2022, 07:07:22 PM »
I'm hoping one of the Mdina experts could help me with this recently purchased globe vase. I'm hoping it is an early Japanese vase, but the neck is not the usual button rim I would expect.
I'd love this to be a Harris era piece, but wondered if anyone had seen examples of this finished (or unfinished) rim before?

Maybe it is as simple as that and the piece just didn't get finished?
It is just under 7x7 inches.

Any help, advice or conjecture would be very much appreciated,
Tom

Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Japanese Vase?
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2022, 07:50:15 PM »
It seems to be the right shape and size for a Japanese globe. And the decor is fine.
Rims, especially from the Harris period can be very different. This is not one I am familiar with though.

How thick is the glass in the rim?

Sometimes, a raised rim can be very thick and cup shaped, sometimes there is no rim, just a hole (a bit like an inside-out), and most often a proper neck with a flange.
The cup shaped rim is the most like yours, the difference being a rounded bit at the bottom, or yours, which is angled.
I'd say it's safe to call it a Japanese globe. And definitely Harris-period.

A pic of the base, and one to see inside the rim would be very helpful.  :)
Cheers, Sue M. (she/her)

‘For every problem there is a solution: neat, plausible and wrong’. H.L.Mencken

Offline tmmorg

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Re: Japanese Vase?
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2022, 08:07:23 PM »
Thank you, Sue.
Your confirmation of it as Harris era has made my evening!
The rim is very think about a cm (measuring between my fingers so not the most accurate method  ;D) It's an incredibly thick and heavy vase, cased in clear glass.

I've attached some more pictures, but not sure if they will be of any more help.

As I said, you've already made my evening so thank you again,

Tom

Offline glassobsessed

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Re: Japanese Vase?
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2022, 08:00:04 AM »
Mostly a repeat of Sue's reply, yes definitely a Japanese globe vase - your second photo shows clearly that the vase was dipped into the pot on each 'side', the resulting trail of glass is visible too. This is the same process that Harris used in his fish vase design, the biggest difference between the two shapes is that your vase was left round and never flattened.

Date wise I would also assume while Harris was still in control (from the complexity of colour) but I am fairly sure Japanese Globes were made for a few years after he left too.

An example of a globe vase that was flattened: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,32132.0.html

John

Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Japanese Vase?
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2022, 11:09:06 AM »
 ;D Is yours not the only flattened globe we know of, John? Or do you have an amethyst and yellow flattened one as well?
I'm thinking the non-standard rim and top are edging this towards Harris period rather than a bit later. It is also perhaps slightly on the smaller side. If something is non-standard, it does suggest it might be more experimental and learning. :)


Cheers, Sue M. (she/her)

‘For every problem there is a solution: neat, plausible and wrong’. H.L.Mencken

Offline tmmorg

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Re: Japanese Vase?
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2022, 11:11:08 AM »
Thank you for your reply, John, and for the beautiful photo of your vase. Stunning!
I'm glad my photos managed to capture the dipping, I'm not the best at photographing glass. I also love the way the swirls stop where the overlap is and then continue, at a different angle, on the otherside. Would the chemical to make the brown (im colour blind but think they are brown, not green) swirls be added to the blue after it was dipped, maybe picked up off the marver?
It's also full of inclusions which maybe confirms the earlier date? (You can see a large one to the bottom of the 2nd photo)
Thank you again,
Tom

Offline tmmorg

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Re: Japanese Vase?
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2022, 11:25:03 AM »
It does seem from other Japanese vases I've seen, the colours became a bit more uniform. More two tone without dramatic swirls. However, I've no doubt you've both seen many more than me. I wonder if this was a rim they tried out before settling on the button rim. Or I suppose it could be just something they tried one day. I know it's dangerous to try and think about these small differences in too much detail as all pieces are different and unique in their own way.
Thank you both again for your help, I'm thrilled you've confirmed it as a japanese vase, especially as it was a bit of a bargain find and I've always wanted to add a JV to my collection.

Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Japanese Vase?
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2022, 11:34:50 AM »
Silver salts are used to create the yellows, ochres and browns. Silver reacts with hot glass. It turns blue glass green; clear glass yellows, ochres and browns; and red glass into brown.

A salt is a molecule of metal, chemically bonded to other molecules - for example chlorine or a nitrate. Table salt is sodium chloride.
When these salts come into contact with heat, they dissociate. The bit of metal reacts with the hot glass, and the chlorine becomes a gas - this makes bubbles.
Nitrate seems to create bubbles too, but I don't know if that becomes a gas - it might just provide seeds for a bubble to form around.

The fact that Mdina actually created their own colours was a big selling point initially. They did it less and less as time went by. Said took over and colours became commercially more available and they, in  time, managed to raise the quality of materials used.

Early on, they had trouble sourcing raw cullet. This is why the clear glass used in some early stuff is of a very poor colour - they ended up using recycled milk bottles.

There was also the matter of the silver salts being extremely toxic, especially when heated to the point they dissociate and turn into gases!
The silver metal turns into a gas too. It was getting some of that to escape that creates the silver trails deposited on the outside of some pieces.
Initially an accident, it was a much desired technique for one of the makers there to learn to accomplish. Not everybody could.

I have often wondered if breathing in these chemicals contributed to Mr Harris' emphysema. :'(

Tom, we cross-posted a short while ago, check if you've seen my post, and we're cross-posting again now, but I know about this one.
You are correct. Don't go reading anything into the small differences.  ;D ;D ;D
The whole point of it being studio glass is that each piece IS unique.
Cheers, Sue M. (she/her)

‘For every problem there is a solution: neat, plausible and wrong’. H.L.Mencken

Offline tmmorg

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Re: Japanese Vase?
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2022, 12:28:06 PM »
Sorry Sue, I did see your earlier post. I was attempting to extend your comment about experimental by suggesting the rim was an earlier 'test' but I feel I should leave conjecture to the experts.

As I said before I'm thrilled it's a Japanese vase and most liky an early one so I shall be very content with that.

Thank you for your fabulous information about the different salts and chlorides used to create the different colours. It does indeed make you think of the high price some artists may have paid, for working with such toxic substances.

Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Japanese Vase?
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2022, 12:45:58 PM »
 ;D It's a lovely thing all on its own, I'm very pleased you like it and are happy with the slightly vague attribution. It is about as accurate as it can be. I really don't think we're in a position to be able to say we think it is definitely Harris work. There were other very competent makers brought in, in the Boffos; and Said's competence was gained very rapidly. I might be tempted to speculate that such a neat neck and rim might indicate a Boffo.
But that is all pure speculation. :)
Cheers, Sue M. (she/her)

‘For every problem there is a solution: neat, plausible and wrong’. H.L.Mencken

 

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