Topic: Vase sold as Whitefriars = Stuart

[flying free]

Less than a year ago as far as I can see, i.e. a recent sale, this was sold as Whitefriars:
http://auctions.roseberys.co.uk/m/lot-details/index/catalog/125/lot/67748/?url=%2Fm%2Fview-auctions%2Fcatalog%2Fid%2F125%2F

m

[keith]

I'd be very surprised if it was ! 

[Marc1976]

Me too Keith  .

[Paul S.]

ask politely if they can indicate the source of their provenance  ................     of course they may well just ignore you, or perhaps decline to help since you aren't the buyer.
Was there a William Powell ??  -   there was a William Wilson of course.

[nigelbenson]

No William Powell 

I've asked a specialist auctioneer in the heart of the English glass world where an attribution came from - only to be told it was the vendors research. I never rely on auctioneers attributions, because it seems, even when there's a known 'expert' they either rely on the vendor (or guess) when they don't know.

I did buy a piece from the same auction house; it was being sold as Webb Corbett. Couldn't understand why it was marked 'Brierley' on the base when I viewed it :O :O I still went ahead and bought it - such a rare thing  

Cheers, Nigel

Edited to add: Rosebury's use a ceramics specialist to catalogue their glass, likely that's why the mistake(s).

[flying free]

ok thank you all, so is it Stuart?
m

[KevinH]

I thought I had posted a thread in 2006 about a friend's probable Stuart vase but I can find neither the thread nor any photos of it in my GMB-related places.

But I have found the original reference photos I took and I am (reasonably) sure that discussions (and whatever else) led me to confirm with the friend that her vase was, indeed, by Stuart. I don't recall if my friend or I did, or did not, eventually find a Stuart mark on it.

So just for reference ... a couple of pics of the vase which I think is of an identical shape etc. etc. (apart from the colour of the "peacock eyes" ) and probably much the same dimensions, to the one queried ...

[flying free]

Thank you.  I also believe it is a Stuart vase.
Will have a quick look to see if there are any pics from the Museum which show a similar piece but was pretty sure it was Stuart.
m

[flying free]

Looking at my Harrod's catalogue pages I am positive this is Stuart but I don't have the pattern number as it's not shown in that shape.
I believe Kev's one belongs under the title 'English Jewel' decoration as the decor it was sold as.  That is, it is in the flint with a green jewel decoration.
I don't know what the amethyst one is in terms of name of range, as the 'English Jewel' range at that time in that catalogue only appears to be 'flint with flint jewel' or 'flint with green jewel' .  Amethyst 'jewel' may have come later on.
But I'm sure it's Stuart.  Neither are 'Peacock' decoration according to that catalogue.
m

[flying free]

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,46323.msg277880.html#msg277880
This is the shape of Kev's vase - seen in the display at the Red House Cone as a Stuart piece.
Different applied decoration and I think that one with that decor in the Stuart museum was sold as '"New Emeraldine" decoration' in the Harrods catalogue.

For interest I own a Stuart vase that was sold as 'The original English "Peacock" decoration' in the Harrod's catalogue.
This has two colour green eyes on a 'flint' body glass, which is the description in the Harrod's catalogue of this decoration.

It could be said, and indeed has been said  that using a Harrods catalogue to identify 'ranges' of glass from Stuart is not the correct way to go about identifying -i.e. I read from that, and agree if that is what is meant, that the pattern books would be the correct place to identify the glass and the design range names.

 However, in mitigating circumstances:
The Harrods catalogues appears on checking to have been using the correct pattern number in their catalogues (presumably because then they'd order '10 x 16036' or whatever and it made things a whole lot less complicated perhaps?  I don't know the reason but they match.

And secondly, something has occurred to me when linking to that Stuart display case at the Red Cone.  There appears to be a single example of each of the ranges represented in the Harrods catalogue.  So it does appear there were several ranges of applied decoration and that they are not all 'peacock eye'.

So, in the interests of working out which were which, it appears to me that Stuart did a number of ranges with applied 'dabs' or patches and trails and they are different to each other ... and the ranges appeared to have had separate names at least when selling in the Harrods catalogue.

So far from the Harrods' catalogue I have the following
(please note, flint means clear I believe in this context even though they bracket the word 'white' after it):

1) The Original English "Peacock" decoration - this is described as 'Two beautiful shades of green on flint white glass'
The body is flint, the two tone eyes and trails are green

I have one of these, this is what the applied pads and trails look like:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=46323.0;attach=97340;image

This range can also be seen on the vase front left of this photo.
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=46323.0;attach=111176;image


2) The "English Jewel" decoration - this is described as 'Either all flint (white) or flint with green jewel ...'

This is what I believe is the decor on Kev's vase:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=64161.0;attach=199977;image

and is also the decor on the two vases on the left and centre of this photo
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=46323.0;attach=148496;image


3) The "New Green Jewel" decoration - these are newer more sleek shapes, less art nouveau waves on shapes.  The body and trails and surrounds of the 'pads' or 'eyes' appear to be all flint glass, the 'jewel' in the centre of the 'pads' or 'eyes' appears to be the green.  The 'pads' or 'eyes' are a different shape to those on both 1) and 2) above as well ... on these they are round rather that flattened splat or organic shaped.

There is an example of this new shaped vase on the right of this photo:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=46323.0;attach=148496;image
where you can also see the difference between the 'pads' in that they are very round and controlled as opposed to those more organic shaped pads of the "Peacock" and " English Jewel" ranges (range names as sold in Harrods).


4) The "New Emeraldene" decoration - these are on flint (clear) glass and have the 'drooped down to the left hand side' largish green pads that then become trails or 'stems' down the vase and slightly twisted to the left.  This is the design sold in Harrods shown on the central vase of this example:

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=46323.0;attach=111176;image

Oh, one last thing - the amethyst 'jewel' can be seen in this photograph from the Museum
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=46323.0;attach=111176;image

If the owners of the photographs are happy for me to copy their pics and post them directly onto this thread under each example it would be much appreciated many thanks

Perhaps mods could change the title to 'Stuart' please when you have time?  thank you

m