Topic: German? Unusual souvenir Römer.

[Ekimp]

This doesn’t seem to be a popular form for souvenir glass, in addition, I can’t find other Römers that are cut like this. The cutting looks to be of very good quality, it must have been a challenge to neatly cut the facets that go around the raised panel.

The lower case letters are only 1mm tall, I think the text says ‘Das Mumm’lege haus auf d Johannisberg’. If I miss off the apostrophe, google translate gives ‘The Mumm house on the Johannisberg’. I believe this is now called Johannisberg Castle, an historic winery. Mumm and Johannisberg Castle still produce wine (£25 a bottle in Waitrose), the castle features on the label and resembles the building on the right of the engraving. I’m not sure what ‘lege’ means?

Although the panel shows a German scene, would the glasses be of German origin?
I suspect I won’t get a maker, but as they are good quality and seem unusual, maybe someone will know?
How old would people think, there’s lots of foot wear? I believe Mumm has been associated with Johannisberg since 1811 but I was thinking possibly mid 19c for the glasses.

The rim and foot are not ground. They are 12.5cm tall and 200g each. Sadly one has a chipped foot but otherwise excellent! Many thanks.

[BlueOctopus]

It is not the Mumm‘lege Haus , it is the Mumm‘sche Haus. That means the house belonging to Mumm.

https://www.luederhniemeyer.com/views/12129_d.php

Your are wright this is the Mumm winery on the Johannisberg. But I don‘t know  where this glass Comes from. But in that area of Germany are quite a lot of glass company’s . The Bayrische Wald is not so far, I think it makes sense to give an order to a company not so far away.

Monika (German )

[BlueOctopus]

Me again

Are you sure that the glass is blown and cutted? To me it looks a little pressed, and than the Medaillon was carved and angraved. On your pictures I can‘t find any press seem, but they appeare a little un sharpe.
Monika

[Ekimp]

Hi Monika, thanks very much for the link and clearing up the German and translation, that’s great. The picture on the link looks the exact same view, maybe they copied that drawing for the glass engraving. I hadn’t managed to find that picture and struggled with the German websites. I envy others’ ability with language.

I thought the ribs over the spreading foot were moulded or tooled somehow but the bowl and top of the faceted stem are definitely cut. You can just about see the polishing marks on the large facets and see the cut marks on the hobnails. I will try and add photos showing this but it’s grey and horrible here so will have to wait for tomorrow. Thanks again, Ekimp (lazy Englishman  )

[BlueOctopus]

Me again.
My thought of pressed glass is that the cutting seems so polished in comparison to the engraved part. I just had a look for glass company’s along the Bayrische Wald, gosh there are more then 20... still working! If you add the closed ones, you end up with endless possibilities. But for example Nachtmann, Eisch, Josca... are in that area. I tried to find something similar to your glasses, but until now nothing. Come back if I find something matching.
Monika

This is the link to the Glas road in the Bayrische Wald

https://www.die-glasstrasse.de/glasmuseen-galerien-hütten/glashütten/

[Ekimp]

Hi again thanks for your efforts.
There’s lots to do and see on the glass road! Yes, there do look to be quite a few possibilities...probably a bit optimistic to get a maker but fingers crossed.

I have added some close up photos of the cutting. In the third photo you can just about see the polish marks/lines at the top of the faceted stem.

I wasn’t sure if this type of glass was a Roemer or Römer. When looking through eBay.de it looked like Germans use Römer for this type of glass (with the wide stem, often with prunts) but also for what I think of as Hock glasses (similar shape bowl but with a slim stem and applied foot). It made it more difficult searching as there were lots of the Hock type glasses. The Corning Museum dictionary said Roemer was an alternative spelling of Römer so I went with Römer. In German, when talking about glasses, does Römer literally translate as ‘Roman’, as in the Italians?

In https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,56278.msg318957.html, reply #5 by neil53 says

Early 19th century roemers had a plain foot onto which a trail of glass was run.  The inside of the foot should be smooth.

I think the ribbed foot of my glass was made in this way, indicating an early 19c date.

[catshome]

Might be worth contacting Mumm, they may have an archivist who could help.

[Ekimp]

Thanks Cat, I might try that.

Not sure about the dating of the foot now as I’ve had a closer look. The rings are concentric, not helical as I had thought, so don’t look as though they were applied with a single trail of glass, the inside of the foot is smooth (ish) though.

[BlueOctopus]

You‘re right calling it Römer. That is the right German title vor this kind of glasses. The stem can be very different , but the upper part always has this round bowl form sometimes a bit longer like a pear.
The first Römer appeared in the mid 17th and it is said that the name has nothing to do with the city of Rom .  It is coming from the German word Ruhm what means fame. Because this glasses were very pretty in comparison to that what was before. It was manly a wine glas.
Monika

[Ekimp]

Thanks for your information on the Römer, sorry I’m a bit late replying!

I have been having another look at this. Not saying this is Theresienthal but there are similar shaped Römers in the c.1840 Theresienthal catalogue. The R.4 shape looks as though it might even be for cutting panels. The catalogue is available for free download from the Corning Museum website here: https://www.cmog.org/library/crystall-glas-fabrik-theresienthal?search=library_collection%3A6070da353a80f845b900ea43d436b700&page=5

This Römer is also a similar shape: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,56350.msg319311.html#msg319311