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Author Topic: ID of Vaseline Glass pieces  (Read 7185 times)

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Offline mhgcgolfclub

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ID of Vaseline Glass pieces
« on: March 15, 2007, 10:02:07 PM »
Help required please on these Vaseline glass pieces, 3 items from a collection of 16 all with the same pattern, not sure what the item with the loop handle was used for, the tray is quite large 9" by 6" and weighs close to 1kg, it was sold as 1920's which may well be the period, I do not think British, guessing European or Belguim, glows very brightly under a UV light




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thanks Roy

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Offline Sid

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Re: ID of Vaseline Glass pieces
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2007, 02:40:00 AM »
Roy:

In North America, the generic name for the pattern is Daisy and Button.  It is an imitation of a very popular circa 1883 cut glass design known as Russian.  Daisy and Button was first made by American pressed glass makers in the 1884 time frame. Edward Bolton registered a boat with this design in 1885. The Daisy and Button design element has been used by almost every pressed glass factory at some point in time.

The middle item is likely a match holder although it is also collected by toothpick collectors.  Maker unknown, but it is American and likely mid 1880s.  I would suggest the same about the tray.

I think the loop handled piece would originally have come with salt and pepper shakers.  They would have a matching cavity in their base so they could sit on the two little pegs.

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Offline mrvaselineglass

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Re: ID of Vaseline Glass pieces
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2007, 04:14:10 AM »
Roy
Sid is correct about the middle piece......Geo. Duncan and Sons made one almost identical, and it has a large diamond shape instead of the daisy shape.  This one is copying Duncan's success (or Duncan copied this one).  They are both of the Early American Glass timeframe of 1881-83.  The maker has never been identified.  The tray could be Bryce, but as Sid said, it could also be one of 30 different companies, all who made this pattern at one time or another.  It is also that early 1880's time frame.  Several companies also made the salt and pepper shaker holder, and the ones that I have seen with the peg hole in the base were generally a daisy and button variety.  All three pieces are USA, all EAPG, all nice, but not a huge demand.  The toothpick/matchholder usually sells for under $20 USD.  I have one I have been trying to sell at our annual vaseline glass convention for $15 and there have been no takers (and no shipping charges on that price!)
Dave Peterson
aka: Mr. Vaseline Glass

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Offline Bernard C

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Re: ID of Vaseline Glass pieces
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2007, 04:40:45 AM »
Sid — I hope you will appreciate that your contribution could be misinterpreted by newcomers, so is worth clarification.

As far as we know, the 1885 Grace Darling boat by Edward Bolton was a clear case of plagiarism of the Hobbs, Brockunier & Co. 101 yacht celery, launched 1884.    The only change they made was to make the boat slightly more upright.   Bolton did not copy just the Daisy & Button or Daisy & Pin pattern on the Hobbs boat;  they copied the whole boat.   As far as we know they did not use the pattern for anything other than Grace Darling boats.   This GMB and Angela Bowey deserve most of the credit for this discovery, as it was only through this forum that Tom Bredehoft and I worked this out.

This is still the best example known of British plagiarism of an American product during the Victorian era.   Probably the best known fully proven example in the opposite direction is Opaline Brocade by John Walsh Walsh, copied by Northwood.

As Sid said, Daisy & Button / Daisy & Pin was used by many glassworks, including both Davidson and Greener here in England.

Bernard C.  8)
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Offline mhgcgolfclub

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Re: ID of Vaseline Glass pieces
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2007, 05:26:49 AM »
Thanks Sid, David and Bernard

As I said there were 16 pieces and about 12 different items in the lot, after I put the 3 on the GMB I had a look at vaseline items selling in the USA and found a similar loop handled salt and pepper shaker holder complete so I did then think that mine was also the same, there are 2 or 3 items which may help ID the maker easier, a pair of what look like egg cup holders in the form of birds although they look like to be a bit on the small size for chicken eggs I had wondered if they were for quail eggs or again some type of tooth pick holder, a heart shape small cream jug and a larger type of vase, I will when I get home from work add some picture to this thread, I had wondered about it being American but thought that was unlikely due to the amount of pieces so I was totally wrong by the looks of that

thanks again Roy mhgcgolfclub

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Offline mrvaselineglass

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Re: ID of Vaseline Glass pieces
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2007, 12:42:26 PM »
Roy
those 'egg cup holders' that are a little small for eggs?  are most likely novelty open salts.  There are both vintage and modern versions.  That creamer also sounds familiar.  Bryce made a small handled creamer that is heart shaped when viewed from the top.  Attached handle, Daisy and Button pattern on the sides.  It sounds like the owner of all this D&B vaseline made a trip to USA and brought home souvenirs!
regards, Dave P.

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Offline mhgcgolfclub

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Re: ID of Vaseline Glass pieces
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2007, 06:12:34 PM »
Thanks Dave

I should have thought myself more likely to be open salts, I have included a picture of one, is there any way to tell difference between old and newer one, looking at my 2 I would be quite happy to think that they were newer than old as they are quite crude and seem to lack too much detail, are all the D&B pieces more likely to be old than new





regards roy

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Offline mrvaselineglass

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Re: ID of Vaseline Glass pieces
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2007, 06:34:04 PM »
the top bird is definitely a salt and definitely a reproduction, but an older reproduction.  Ruth Webb Lee highlighted it as a reproduction in her book on reproductions, and that had a copyright date of sometime in the 1940's.  On that particular style, if it has a berry in the beak, it is a reproduction.  without the berry, it was made by Richards and Hartley 1880's. 

the next one was made by BELMONT and is called their No. 100 PATTERN, but is more commonly referred to as DAISY AND BUTTON WITH LACY EDGE, or BELMONT'S DAISY AND BUTTON.  There is a good following for that particular pattern, esp. if it has no damage.  those rings ding or crack easily.  Not knowning the size, it is either the spooner or celery (if it has a rim on the inside, the sugar, and then it came with a lid).  production was early 1880's.

The large bowl with the darts was made by Hobbs, Brockunier & Co., and was their No. 101 (Daisy & Button) pattern.  LG Wright later reproduced it, but from a new mold, and the darts have more distance from each other at the bottom of the bowl.  the Hobbs version almost touch each other, while there is a noticable gap on the LG Wright version.

The little creamer next to it is the Bryce Bros. version I thought it was.  1880s.  Their original manufacturer name for the pattern was FASHION.

The next photo shows a triangular bowl:  I *think* that is also a Bryce Bros., but don't have time to look (all of this is from memory).  the bowl next to it was made by Beatty Glass and was originally called VAN DYKE.  It is also known as DAISY AND BUTTON WITH 'V' ORNAMENT.  Beatty later joined US Glass, and that particular factory was in Tiffin, Oh, which later became known as 'Tiffin' Glass.  same factory, same workers, just different management.

The last one fits into that category of 'one of the unknown D&B makers.

Some D&B collectors go for a certain company, some are not particular and if it is D&B, it fits into their collection.  Too many people avoid it though, due to reproductions by LG Wright and others.  patterns like the Belmont #100 or the D&B with V ornament have specific followers, as those patterns were not reproduced and people don't have to know all the ins and outs of what was reproduced and what was not. 

on a side note, I always like looking at your glass auctions and have your seller name bookmarked.  You always have nice stuff.  I am a fan of the Brit vaseline glass and you always seem to have some.  Burtles, Tate and Co. is one of my favorites, as is John Walsh Walsh.

I just got a piece of Walsh Walsh in the pattern called MINSTER KEY, (aka: WAVES by Edwards/Carwile in their opalescent book).  http://i14.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/8c/28/665c_1.JPG
With shipping from France, it was less than $70 USD.  Another collector in the US just bought a water pitcher in this pattern and it cost them $667. USD
http://i1.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/8d/fb/2d24_12.JPG
sorry to hijack your thread, but this pattern is just really neat!

regards
Dave Peterson

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Offline Bernard C

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Re: ID of Vaseline Glass pieces
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2007, 06:54:29 PM »
Quote from: mrvaselineglass
... The large bowl with the darts was made by Hobbs, Brockunier & Co., and was their No. 101 (Daisy & Button) pattern.  LG Wright later reproduced it, but from a new mold, and the darts have more distance from each other at the bottom of the bowl.  the Hobbs version almost touch each other, while there is a noticable gap on the LG Wright version. ...

Interesting, Dave.   I was just about say that it was Moore, Rd 95625, March 12 1888.   The registration was for the comport, see Thompson p.22, so the bowls are never marked.   Is this another example of Grace Darling plagiarism?   I would love to have been a fly on the wall when Hobbs' directors tore their UK agent apart for not registering their designs here!   I thought Walsh suffered badly from plagiarism, on both sides of the Atlantic — but it looks as if Hobbs was a close match.

Quote from: mrvaselineglass
... I just got a piece of Walsh Walsh in the pattern called MINSTER KEY, (aka: WAVES by Edwards/Carwile in their opalescent book).
http://i14.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/8c/28/665c_1.JPG
With shipping from France, it was less than $70 USD.  Another collector in the US just bought a water pitcher in this pattern and it cost them $667. USD
http://i1.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/8d/fb/2d24_12.JPG ...

How do you know it's Walsh?   I've never seen it before.   ... and the jug is not an English shape, although it could have been made solely for the US market.

Bernard C.  8)
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Offline mhgcgolfclub

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Re: ID of Vaseline Glass pieces
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2007, 07:16:15 PM »
Hi  Dave

What a memory you have, when I go shopping for 4 items these days I always only come home with 3,the vase you call Belmont which you say is prone  to damage is 6" tall , the ring / lace edge is perfect but it does have a 1.5" fracture on the body of the vase which just reaches the  rim, the dart bowl is one of 4 of them, thanks again for a very comprehensive discription of each piece just from memory

regards roy

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