Topic: Dating Whitefriars / Powell

[David Hier]

On a recent visit to a charity shop I was lucky enough to stumble across a ruby vase by Powell (Yes, it's still possible - must be a blue moon or something  ). The vase features a ribbon trail and is almost certainly designed by Barnaby Powell (Pattern No. 9030).

From what I understand, this vase was originally designed in 1935, but the design is featured in the pattern books for the following years:

1938
1940
1949
1957
1964

Does anyone know if there is any way of dating this particular item to a specific year of production?

[Pinkspoons]

The catalogue pages you linked to don't work.

But I would say that it dates to between 1957 - 1964, as Ruby doesn't seem to crop up in the available catalogues before '57.

I might be wrong.

[Frank]

links fixed (No quotes needed)

[David Hier]

links fixed (No quotes needed)

Thanks........I should have checked that the Links worked before posting.

[Pip]

Hi, if it's the same as mine (link below) you can see the information I managed to find out about it... (yours may be a different size to mine) - oh and by the way, I found mine in a chariddy shop too 

http://www.pips-trip.co.uk/sold-items/sold-glass-1/showitem-WFRUBY-TRAILBP.aspx

And in answer to your question, I don't believe there's any way of being more specific datewise.

[David Hier]

But I would say that it dates to between 1957 - 1964, as Ruby doesn't seem to crop up in the available catalogues before '57.

I think that you might be right.

I have just checked and the earlier pattern books (1938 & 1940) specifically mention  "Sea Green, Flint, Gold Amber, Emerald, Sapphire", "Blue on Sea Green", as well as "Amethyst". No mention of ruby.

There is no mention of colour for 1949, but the 1957 pattern book features the initials "F. A. G. B. T. R.". I would imagine that these correspond to colours and that the "R" stands for ruby. The 1964 pattern book only mentions the colour "Ruby".

[David Hier]

Hi, if it's the same as mine (link below) you can see the information I managed to find out about it... (yours may be a different size to mine) - oh and by the way, I found mine in a chariddy shop too 

http://www.pips-trip.co.uk/sold-items/sold-glass-1/showitem-WFRUBY-TRAILBP.aspx

And in answer to your question, I don't believe there's any way of being more specific datewise.

My vase stands at 18cm (7") and is identical to the following item listed with eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200037892993

I don't know how anyone else feels about the price of the above item, but I can't imagine the seller getting the full asking price for their vase. The popularity of Whitefriars and Powell appears to be on the decline and I think that some of the 'silly money' prices being asked are simply unrealistic.

[Pip]

I don't know how anyone else feels about the price of the above item, but I can't imagine the seller getting the full asking price for their vase. The popularity of Whitefriars and Powell appears to be on the decline and I think that some of the 'silly money' prices being asked are simply unrealistic.

Seems rather steep  especially in the eBay market as it is right now (rock bottom) however I disagree with your statement about Whitefriars being on the decline - this isn't borne out with sales on my website where Whitefriars sells extremely well - my (smaller than yours) ruby trailed vase sold within 1 day of listing for a good price (although nothing on the lines of the above one).  I researched my vase pretty thoroughly and although I could be wrong I think it came out in ruby earlier than 1957 - I'll see if I can find my research notes and look through some books to see how I arrived at my dates.

[Pinkspoons]

The 1940 catalogue doesn't mention Ruby at all - although, admittedly, the 1949 and 1950 catalogues don't seem to list any colours whatsoever on the pages I can see.

However, Emmi's list of WF colours by year on the WFOrg site doesn't mention Ruby pre-1957.

[robbo]

In the Lesley Jackson Whitefriars book it says ruby, as a main body colour, was introduced in 1940 (partly war-time austerity, it was soda-glass rather than lead crystal) and was used initially for the ribbon-trailed and wave-ribbed ranges only (pages 81 & 123).

robbo