Topic: Decanter - ID=Caithness

[Pat]

I like this shape. It has a faint ground pontil depression on the bottom. Colour looks smoky on the camera but more purplish in daylight.

[Max]

Pat, that's a 'Morven' decanter by Domnhall O'Broin for Caithness.  I think this type of glassware will in increase in value, so it's worth holding onto IMHO...maybe you can find some matching glasses? 

[Pat]

I bought this from a charity stall at a car boot this morning. The lady said we had the glasses last time but sold them. The purchaser did not want the decanter duh! Actually I thought it was better than Italian but expected it not to be. I am so glad. Thanks Max.

[Pip]

Hi Pat, I have the same Morven decanter also - it's in the Peat colourway (same as yours) and, would you believe, I found the matching glasses at the same carboot the following week.  The only reason I haven't attempted to sell it yet is the weight - it'll cost a fortune to post 

[vidrioguapo]

Hi I think I have one of these tucked away somewhere, but the stopper just sits fairly loosely in the neck, in other words it is not a tight fit.  Is this how they were made? TIA Emmi

[Max]

I've had two, they were both pretty loose.  I wasn't sure if the stopper was supposed to double as a glass.  :huh:

[nigel benson]

Hi Emmi and Max,

Yes the stoppers were made to fit loosely, but if you think about it, the liquid is/should be sealed by the proximity of the top meeting the base within the curved decanter rim. Therefore there is no need for a tight fitting peg to the stopper. Either solution achieves the desired end - the sealing of the liquid from the outside.

I am aware that there is often reference to the use of the stopper as a glass on eBay listings, but I don't believe that is based on anything other than the need for something to say about the item being sold Furthermore, I have seen no reference to the doubling up of the stopper as a glass Caithness's publicity material, which one might expect if that were the case. (It would be good to know if anyone else has actually seen contemporary reference(s) to this as a recognised use of the stopper.)

Personally, I do not believe that the stopper doubled as a glass in this case, as it would be an awkward shape to drink from as well as being a pain to clean properly afterward - making it a poor piece of design. IMHO Domhnall O'Broin's designs for Caithness were important because of their simplicity and practicality. The stopper of his Morven simply echos the form of the base - in much the same way that a cut decanter might have the same cut embellishing the stopper and the base in order to underline the relationship of the two.

Nigel

[Tigerchips]

The stoppers 'may' come in two different shapes.
See> http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,9542.0.html

[Max]

I think the different thickness of those two stoppers is more likely to be a variation Tiger, but maybe Nigel knows?

Thanks for the info about the possibility of the stopper being a glass Nigel.  Maybe it is just an urban myth...as you mentioned, it gives sellers something extra to say about it at least.   

[nigel benson]

Hi Tony,

I did see that thread at the time, but decided not to comment. You didn't say how you came by the set, or whether it was in its original wrapping. In other words the question that comes to mind is "Do you have anything that indicates the two stoppers came with the decanter/set originally?"

If not there are a number of ways that two stoppers could have ended up with the set you bought, the one that comes to mind first is that a second decanter was broken. It could have been lost in a move by the previous owners, etc, etc..

As for the different thicknesses, this could be down to the individual workers, or the different times it was made. In all likelihood it was different workers who took different amounts of metal (glass) on the gather, so producing different thicknesses. In my limited experience, the more experienced the blower, the less glass on the gather and the finer the finished item becomes (unless the item is required to be consistently thicker). Maybe Adam could comment on that side of things?

Without some sort of definative proof we are only guessing that the stopper was sold (or commonly used) as a glass. Of course, it is quite possible owners without the matching glasses could have taken the odd dram using the stopper Usage might be different to the original intention of the designer or seller, but again that would be apocryphal.

Nigel