Topic: French/Bohemian/? Help needed with this millefiori mini.

[alexander]

Hi, I found this strange little number on UK eBay, it was selling alongside an old chinese weight so I
suspect the listing didn't get the attention it deserved.

The picture wasn't the best but seeing six pointed canes and what appeared to be a blue on white rose cane
I jumped at it thinking "oooh, a Clichy".

Now it's arrived and I'm confused and need help  :huh:

It's a concentric with two rings of canes around a center blue/white rose with a blue/white bullseye center.
 
It is a small 1"3quarters, or 4,3 cm, across and about 1"1/2, or 3,6 cm, tall.
The glass is clear and clean, some striations but not bad.

The base is typical Clichy with a concave polished base and a flat outer rim with plenty wear.
The canes are off center and some are unevenly set. 

Now to what's got me confused.
The six pointed stars are complex canes in that the center which appears green is six bullseye canes in pink/white
set around a center bullseye, cased in green then cased in many layers of white/clear glass.
(the white appears solid until viewed with a magnifying glass).

The center rose is a blue/white with a blue & white bullseye center.

Now the six pointed canes are similar to Clichy siz pointers apart from the center, which I haven't been able to match up.

And the rose doesn't look like a Clichy rose.

It looks to me to be from a quality manufacturer but probably not Clichy, maybe Baccarat or a Bohemian creation?

Any help muchly appreciated, I am hoping someone recognizes the canes or can point me in the right direction.

Thanks

Apoligies for the pictures, my camera now works but my tripod has a screw loose.

Top View 1
Top View 2
Side View
Base
Side View 2
http://

[alexander]

I see this one has everyone stumped 

I've managed some better pictures of the canes, showing the small complex ones and the layered white.

Any hints at all muchly appreciated.

Thanks

Cane closeup 1
Cane closeup 2

[Leni]

I did see this one, Alexander, and I admit my first thoughts were very much the same as yours! 

I love those little complex canes in the centre of the 'white' stars!  I think I'd probably vote for 'Bohemian' - that wonderful catch-all ID!   

I hope someone else can come up with something more definite.  I'd be really interested to know, too!

 

[alexander]

A gentle bump - am totally stumped on this one, french, belgian, boh, british?

[karelm]

erhm....I have a weight with a similar (not the same!) rose cane....and that is from Murano.  Unfortunately my cam has decided not to download pics so I can't show you what it looks like  .  Having said that those star canes do look like something other than Murano.

[cfosterk]

What a great piece!!

An appropriate description would be AFTER clichy - canes certainly influenced by a clichy floret and a central rose.

Colours and composition are all wrong for an antique but a great little piece anyways!!

I'd plump for murano rather than bohemian...

 

[alexander]

I'm very happy with it, it's a little conundrum 

Murano is a ways off IMHO, the colors are more old english than Murano in a way, except the dark green
used in the complex centers of the stars. That color feels more Boh.

Subdued colors is not the first thing that springs to mind when thinking of Murano weights 
Happy, bright colors and plenty of them - that's Murano

I think the complex canes and layered white of the stars point away from Murano,
English makers used the layering technique f.ex. altho I'm sure they weren't alone.
The cane closeup pics I posted in the second post show the layers and centre quite well.

Intriguingly there are two weights in Jargstorfs book on p. 158 that have stars of a similar fashion,
one of which even appears to have a white C. style rose.

The centre rose to me suggests that the maker had seen and was being inspired by both Clichy and Baccarat.
The Clichy style rose is widely emulated now tho - the thick white parts of this one
remind me of Parpoint roses, luckily they have a very distinct style so easy to id.
The stars have a shape widely used by Clichy, but the complex centres are very different.
The bullseye centre of the rose is typical Baccarat.

The base and profile is very typical of classic French weights, polished concave with basal ring.
The wear is consistant with age.
   
I guess this is why the weight is so confusing, many elements that are familiar, complex canes to
suggest a maker of some skill, yet set poorly and canes with elements you almost can't see
without a magnifying glass.

I have a book ordered that KevH recommended on Boh. weights, it should be coming in the
same shipment as the B&S and NEGC book, if it yields something new I'll post

[m1asmithw8s]

I've seen Boh rose canes but never a Muano rose cane. If anyone has pics of a Muano weight with a rose cane or canes, I'd love to see it 

[Leni]

Murano roses for you    

[Derek]

Hi All

Here is a typical Murano "Clichy" rose

Best regards

Derek