Topic: Jack Allan signature cane weight

[cfosterk]

Hi!

Very interesting item looks typically early strathearn but has an unusual JA signature cane.

Any idea's folks??

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230187556095&ssPageName=STRK:MEBI:IT&ih=013

[Frank]

I see Richard is bidding, no doubt he will give a detailed analysis if he wins...

[Wuff]

There is also a second one - from the same seller: item 230187585764

[cfosterk]

I don't get this! Two signed weights by Jack Allan, one signed "s" with a signature cane i've not seen before, and then another with what looks like a date cane of "1966" - incredible collection....

All from the same seller! I hope Richard gets some provenance - all very interesting pieces, Not surprised he's top bidder, although I felt guilty about bidding against him....

[Frank]

I am sure the seller won't mind. The second one has a much clearer J, I suppose that makes it quite a scarce, but on the other hand that sig cane must have gone into a lot of weights.

[cfosterk]

I've just got the perthshire 'rose' (crown) produced in 1971.

My view on Strathearn's is that the signed items tended to be significantly superior, (and some faceted items) so it's better to have one of these items than four or five standard pieces, which are ok but nowhere near as interesting!! 

It's all a matter of taste - but give me scarcity any day!!

[KevinH]

Cfosterk said:

I don't get this! Two signed weights by Jack Allan, one signed "s" with a signature cane i've not seen before, ...

I think it is wise to make queries when something unusual happens.

For the general point of two "JA" signed weights appearing together in the same batch of items, it certanly is unusual as not too many signed JA weights have appeared on the market in the paste several years. However, I think it's all ok and looks like somebody happened to collect a range of weights that were made in the late 60s at Vasart and some had a "JA" cane (not an official inclusion, but occurred nevertheless).

But, regarding the "S" cane, would I be correct in assuming, cfosterk, that you do not have, or have not fully studied, Andy Dohan's book on Paperweight Signature canes? And perhaps you have not seen the Aug 2005 issue of the Newsletter of the Paperweight Collectors Circle. (If you are not a member of the PCC, you really should join - the full colour Newsletter is superb and well worth the membership fee on its own!

For the "S" cane, as well as being shown in Andy's book and the PCC Newsletter, it appears in Richard's website at this page. Note the comments by Terry Johnson, who was the author of the piece in the 2005 PCC Newsletter. The complete Strathearn flower weight with that cane is shown in Richard's site at this link and is very similar to the one in the Bergstrom museum which was the source of Andy's comments in his book.

The PCC Newsletter piece referred to my UV examination of Terry's weight which showed it to be before 1956 and therefore at least 8 years before Strathearn was formed out of the Vasart company. I also now have a concentric weight with the same "S" cane and this also fluoresces as earlier than 1956. In my weight the cane is set reversed so it looks more like a smoothed out "2" or "z"!

So, that "S" cane may have been a true signature for Salvador Ysart, but was first generally noted by collectors in a later context of a Strathearn upright flower weight! Maybe that makes any weight with that cane quite desirable? And maybe these comments may now cause a sudden rise in the bids for that weight? Or maybe not - perhaps it really depends on how we all view the "niceness" of the weight.

[cfosterk]

WOW! Thanks Kevin - lots of information to take in... :clap:

I wasn't questioning the authenticity of the pieces, just the items came up together at the same time. I've seen the same orange JA signature cane on just a couple of pieces before, again nothing questionable there...

I'm interested you attribute the items to Vasart - nice pieces and high quality pieces..

Alas I don't have Andy's book, nor am I a member of the PCC (or the NPS). On the book front I've got too many books that focus on classic period pieces, and not the budget to collect in this area!!! I think I should refocus and collect those areas which I get most enjoyment out of (Deacons, Mansons, and when possible Ysart!!).

The problem was that Dad started in the mid-eighties as a "one of everything" collector and used me as his eyes whenever we went to fairs. It was like a game - I was hunting out pieces for dad to buy, a bit like hide and seek!!! I've got a sprawling collection as a result. And I can't stop buying!!! It's really very addictive and ebay has NOT helped with this addiction!!!!

I really must join one (or both) societies - how else will I educate myself and refine my tastes? The UV analysis is intriging. This is another area I should educate myself on - I look at the composition, the canes and then go with gut instinct - in terms of vasart/strathearn i mean - perthshire and other manufacturers are usually clearly identifiable...   

As for the Salvador signature angle - i'm afraid I remain spectical. Although why "s" canes would have been produced pre-1964 is a mystery! Did you see the signed vasart/salvador/vincent piece that sold this week by the way?

[Frank]

To be Salvador signatures they would need to be pre-1955. Another in the realm of possibility could be for a commission... Selfridges - I would have thought Dave Moir would have some idea of such a cane Kevin.