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Author Topic: Stuart or Harrach ?  (Read 8950 times)

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Offline glasswizard

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Stuart or Harrach ?
« on: July 11, 2005, 08:28:49 AM »
This past weekend as is my usual thing to do, went  antiquing.
Found some nice things but the winner has to be this.
I was thinking Bohemian, but imagine my surprise when I discovered it is in fact Stuart & Sons. It has the "Cairngorm" decoration and is listed as circa 1900s at www.great-glass.co.uk.

My question has to do with value. It is of course going into the "Collection"  but that nagging question of value does come up.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/Muscadale/Collection%20-%20Misc/TStuart.jpg

It stands about 4 inches high and is about 5 1/2 inches across.

Thanks Terry

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Offline Leni

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Stuart or Harrach ?
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2005, 08:45:45 AM »
I bought a piece with similar coloured trailing at the National, although it doesn't have the extra blue dot on the green  :(
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-1765  http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-1766

Confirm no marks on mine, though

At the time somebody on the board - I think it might have been Bernard - said it could be by one of a number of the Stourbridge glasshouses who were using similar patterns at the turn of the century (before last  :roll: ).

I seem to recall paying about £70 for it - Sue, you were there, do you remember? - but I think yours is nicer so should be worth more  :P
Leni

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Offline glasswizard

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Stuart or Harrach ?
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2005, 09:52:01 AM »
Leni, yours is lovely.

As to the prices I am hearing, lets say I made a very good buy. Upon entering the shop my heart fell  when I was confronted with all sorts of new chinese glass but way back in a dark corner sat this little gem. Only when we got outside in the sunshine and looked at it again did the blue centers show.

Then I knew I had something. And a big thank you is in order to Peter, who when I was describing what I thought was Bohemian, said no, sounds English and steered me in the right direction.
Terry

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Offline mhgcgolfclub

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Stuart or Harrach ?
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2006, 07:46:39 PM »
I bought a large bowl 8" diameter nearly 2kg in weight with silver rim about 2 years ago and that cost about £130.00 , I still have the bowl


 
roy

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Offline paradisetrader

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Stuart or Harrach ?
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2006, 09:35:20 PM »
Roy
Now yours looks Bohemian, as opposed to the mainly Stuart ones we've seen in this forum so far. Possibly Harrach as Max suggested in one of these threads. Now where might I find a Harrach expert ....hmmm in the Market Place forum maybe ...................

Silver rims seem to be found mostly on Bohemian items and stylistically it has more of that feel too. I wonder if yours pre-dates the Stuart Cairngorm ones which were c1900 according to www.great-glass.co.uk ?
I have a feeling it might. What year does the hallmark date to ?

Of course the glass can pre-date the silver rim but it's a good place to spart.
Pete

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Offline mhgcgolfclub

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Stuart or Harrach ?
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2006, 09:43:53 PM »
Hallmark is Birmingham 1905, if you find a Harrach expert please let me know  as I have a large pair of Victorian lizard vases which I believe may well be Harrach
roy

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Offline KevinH

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Stuart or Harrach ?
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2006, 10:51:42 PM »
OK, thanks folks - we now have a good selection of images to look at again, including those in my message: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,5358.0.html

It seems to me that my friend's vase is of better quality (it looks cleaner and crisper in the design and appearance of the glass) than either Terry's or Leni's examples (but they are, indeed, both good in their own right).

Roy's rimmed bowl looks closer to my friend's in that the "eyes" are set in clear surround and trails, and the trails are very precise. Peter's view that it might be a Bohemian piece could be right, but going by the ones in the Great Glass site, I think Roy's and the one I show are Stuart.

I eagerly await the views of anyone who may know the difference and who may also be able to confirm the Thomas Webb versions as mentioned in my other message.
KevinH

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Offline Bernard C

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Stuart or Harrach ?
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2006, 10:58:32 PM »
Quote from: Leni
... At the time somebody on the board - I think it might have been Bernard - said it could be by one of a number of the Stourbridge glasshouses who were using similar patterns at the turn of the century ...
Leni - I can't recall exactly what I said, but the information I was trying to get across was that you cannot attribute by coloured streaks alone.   Walsh certainly used them as well as Stuart, so you have to assume that the technique became universally known fairly quickly.

As for "Cairngorm" and "Peacock's Eye" glass, I have found very little in the authoritative sources.   "Cairngorm" was certainly used by S&W for a range of cased glass which Dodsworth dates to around 1925.   I can't find any authoritative source for the use of the name by Stuart.    It could be another name introduced by Bill Heacock.   It seems to me unlikely that S&W would use a name already in widespread use by Stuart.

Jackson attributes two colour green peacock's eye glass to Stuart, with an introduction date of around the turn of the century.   She also notes a citron and chocolate version which I have not seen.   It is not too difficult to find, so it is reasonable to assume that it was in production for a long time, perhaps until the late 1930s.   The sources are notably silent on single colour peacock's eye glass, so it could be a cheaper range by Stuart, or by any of a large number of other glass works, including continental glass houses.

Perhaps the most revealing source is Hajdamach.   There is a deafening silence on peacock's eye glass, which indicates to me that the author was possibly unhappy with popular attributions, but could not find sufficient primary source material to correct this.

Hajdamach omissions are always interesting.

I am sure that I have seen another relevant source, but cannot find it at present.   I would be pleased if anyone reading this could point me in the direction of any primary or authoritative sources I have missed.

Bernard C.  8)
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Offline Hotglass

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Stuart or Harrach ?
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2006, 12:15:58 AM »
A couple more pics both attributed to Stuart, both cabouchon / inset style.

http://tinyurl.com/h3y3z
http://tinyurl.com/gznd4

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Offline Bernard C

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Stuart or Harrach ?
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2006, 08:19:03 AM »
Found it!

Jackson's Whitefriars Lookalikes, a lengthy illustrated article in Glass Association Journal Vol. 5, 1997.   Plate 6 shows two examples of two colour green peacock's eye glass, which she attributes to Stuart 1900-10.   However Plate 6(i) is of a wavy-edged mushroom posy, a shape to my knowledge not made until the 1930s.

You can see how persuasive the old-style experts have become.   You find yourself looking at it the opposite way around.   In this case starting to believe that Stuart made mushroom posies at the turn of the century.   You find yourself becoming convinced that all British glassworks virtually closed down for about a third of a century!

Bernard C.  8)
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