Topic: Vaseline Uranium Dish. (Bagley?)

[Gilead]

Hi All
       I think this is a Bagley pressed fruit bowl Uranium, it as a reg No inside 849118.

Am i right in thinking that this is also known as carnival of Bagley? any idea please as to the year this might have been made, picked it up today as i was passing the charity shop on my way to Sainsburys, all ways on the look out, only £0.99p i really like this sort of glass. Another one for the box,

[Lustrousstone]

 :hiclp: Well according to the Bagley book, the registration date for Carnival was Nov 1946, but Bagley supposedly had all their uranium glass confiscated in 1946. There's an awful lot of uranium Carnival about, with and without registered numbers stamped on, so there's something adrift somewhere  :huh: :huh:

What size is it? There's a large fruit bowl and matching smaller ones. There's also a sugar bowl but that has steeper sides

[Anne]

I've a full fruit set in Bagley Carnival uranium green as well - large bowl and 6 small ones, no reg no on any of mine at all.  Steve well done in ID'ing it.   :clap:

[Gilead]

Thank You Anne. Phew!!!
                                     Christine the size of the bowl is 2.5ins high to the rim and 8.5ins in diameter, and gave it the UV light test came up trumps :clap: found this as well regarding the UV torch,( http://www.anythingradioactive.com/marbles.htm ) cheers
                                                                                                                                                        Steve

[Anne]

Christine, I'm sure I recall someone (Adam, Bernard or Glen perhaps?) explaining that the registration process took quite a while to go through, so whilst the design is dated Nov 1946 the items could be made prior to that.  In support of this, Bernard said in a discussion about the Jobling rose bowls that some of the early pieces have reg applied for rather than the rd no so those would pre-date the application too. By the way, do we have a definite date for the confiscation of Bagley's uranium stock? Angela's book only says "around 1946".

[Bernard C]

... according to the Bagley book ... Bagley supposedly had all their uranium glass confiscated in 1946. ...

... do we have a definite date for the confiscation of Bagley's uranium stock? Angela's book only says "around 1946".

Christine & Anne — I've been through Angela's book and I can't find this reference.   Are we looking at the same book?   Mine is the First Paperback Edition, is dated 2004, and has ISBN 0-473-09836-9.

Anyway, I've been through the bibliography and acknowledgements, and unless Angela and the Parsons obtained this information from The Pottery Gazette or somewhere else, the obvious source is Richard van Riel's comprehensive article on the Bagley glassworks in British Glass between the Wars (BGbtW), published 1987.   Richard is curator of Pontefract Museum, which houses, in a room dedicated to Knottingley glass (includes bottle works), the comprehensive Bagley reference collection, including the extensive collection built up by the Parsons, and both printed and written paper archives.

So what does Richard say?   He doesn't say that "all" Bagley's stock of Uranium ore was confiscated, but that "some three tons of uranium rich material" was.   So we don't know how much escaped.   Also Richard does not date this event to "around 1946", but to the "end of the war".   I doubt whether the Government would have been able to confiscate anything after VJ Day (15 August 1945), especially in Yorkshire!   This is the only reference I've found to the confiscation of uranium ore from our glassworks, so we don't know how reliable Richard's dates are.   However the first critical mass calculation was done in Britain in 1940, and the MAUD committee produced their report here on unanium enrichment in 1941, so I am reasonably confident that the confiscation must have taken place some time between 1940 and the end of the war.

... I recall someone (Adam, Bernard or Glen perhaps?) explaining that the registration process took quite a while to go through, so whilst the design is dated Nov 1946 the items could be made prior to that. ...

Anne — The only example I knew of a serious timelag between the development of a pattern and its design registration has now been shown to be an error, see here.

So, in summary, I see no reason to suppose that the launch of Bagley's Carnival pattern was other than November 1946.

And please, ladies, would you buy or borrow a copy of BGbtW.   It is invaluable — one of my three copy references (one for my mobile book box, one for my bookshelf, and a third for when the first wears out).

Bernard C. 

[Anne]

Bernard, my copy of Bowey and Parsons is the second paperback edition, dated 2004, same ISBN as you give though. The ref to uranium stock is the very last sentence on page 100 at the end of the Fruit Dishes and Sets section.

I don't know how much the timescales for registering designs has changed since 1946, but it appears that an application can take up to 5 months to process now, and up to a year's grace to test the market is permitted, so the implication there is that an item could be made for up to around 18 months before a design is registered.

BTW thanks for the suggestion about the other Bagley book, I'll track a copy down.

[Bernard C]

Bernard, my copy of Bowey and Parsons is the second paperback edition, dated 2004, same ISBN as you give though. The ref to uranium stock is the very last sentence on page 100 at the end of the Fruit Dishes and Sets section. ...

Mine has slightly different page numbering and is missing that uranium text.

... I don't know how much the timescales for registering designs has changed since 1946, but it appears that an application can take up to 5 months to process now, and up to a year's grace to test the market is permitted, so the implication there is that an item could be made for up to around 18 months before a design is registered. ...

I suspect processing a registration application was much faster then — no computers to slow things down, and a much more trusting business atmosphere, where you still didn't always need a written contract.   What a sad and inefficient world we live in today.

... BTW thanks for the suggestion about the other Bagley book, I'll track a copy down.

It's not specifically a Bagley book, but on all British glass.   Author — Roger Dodsworth.   You might find it listed under exhibition catalogues.   The British Library has at least one lending copy.

Bernard C. 

[Lustrousstone]

I have the second paperback edition and on page 20 "After the war, about 1946, the government confiscated Bagley's stocks of uranium enriched glass ingredients (several tons)." There is also the mention on page 100.

Steve you have the large fruit bowl

[Bernard C]

Christine — That text is not in my first edition.   I still think that confiscation would have been unlikely after the war — compulsory purchase perhaps.   I hope Angela sees this and clears up this little difficulty.   Anyway, in relation to Steve's bowl, the Government obviously didn't take all Bagley's stock of uranium ore.

Bernard C.