Topic: Blue Opaque Vase W/Molded Gold Detailing

[Ohio]

Hi. I figured I'd post these here first as they appear to be more of a European influence/manufacture than here in the  U.S. These do not have any mold lines anywhere yet they have a raised pattern over all the body of the vase. There is even a (bear with me here this may not be the best description) a checkerboard or criss-cross pattern at the nech, repeated at the bottom. They show a bit of wear, but the gold is passible. I was thinking maybe Portieux or Vallerysthal, but I may be way off base.  Any guidance, opinions, etc. are much appreciated.

[Ivo]

Funny you should say European - I'd sooner think American, perhaps Northwood.

[Ohio]

Thnaks Ivo, my fault as I should have said the blue is opaque & even though its not thin by any means the opaqueness shows in the sunlight. Northwood, Jefferson, Beaumont, etc. are as a rule solid blue, flat & dull, no opaque shows.  I've posted to the US board I frequent this morning, but I'll be suprised if the Northwood guy doesn't say try Portieux....maybe one of the EAPG ladies will recognize the pattern if its ours. Ken

[Ivo]

not sure we have the same concept of opaque which is solid, non transparent, not translucent. As soon as light shines through it you call it semi-opaque.  Highlighting pressed or mould blown glass in gold is something we don't usually see here.

[Ohio]

Ivo....well its possible somebody got creative with some paint...maybe it should not have the gold...that I don't know. I was hoping maybe Sowerby or one of the other English shops, but in all probability its going to be next to impossible to pin down no matter which side of the pond it came from. I need to stay away from this blue opaque, semi-opaque stuff. I went through this with a blue cracker jar that Fenton purchased the mold for & reproduced for a QVC item. Even though Jim Measell bought the mold in a Chicago  sale he never did find whose mold it originally was. No matter how long I do this I still make mistakes every now & then. Thanks for trying though...if I get any hits on the U.S. board I frequent I'll post it, but again probably a dead end pattern. Ken

[krsilber]

Looks French to me.

[Ohio]

Good call Kristi. Got an email back from a collector who handles this stuff & he had me take another picture after I used Ivo's term translucent. The other photos didn't show this. He then reminded me that I had the 1902 & 1907 Vallerysthal catalogs namely because & gave them to him (dumb I didn't remember that) when S.Geiselberger gave them to me when I was trying to ID that blue cracker jar & in the 1902 catalog under transparentes (French) is bleu azur which matches up rather well. He did say they were not U.S.,  color is not ours...we didn't make this translucent blue in that time frame. He did think there was a good chance that the gold was not original....it would have been long gone by now in all probability. He was going to check his catalogs for the pattern, but he thought it might be an earlier molded pattern that doesn't appear as he was not certain he had seen this one before, but was confident its probably Vallerysthal. So I learned that when confronted with an opaque you can see though I need to use translucent & take the right photo.

[krsilber]

Yeah, the gold has a modern look to it.  Perhaps it was regilded, that's my guess.  Doesn't seem like most people would go to the expense of gilding something that was bare to begin with.

I think a lot of this kind of blue came out of France.  It's called opaline, which is "slightly translucent" according to Newman's.  To me "semi-opaque" is odd terminology, since either something's opaque, or not.  On the other hand, even glass that's normally opaque can be slightly translucent if it's thin enough, just as porcelain can. 

There's a heck of a lot of glass out there described as opaque that actually isn't!

[Lustrousstone]

LOL Kristi, semi-opaque is a bit like slightly translucent (which in one of my dictionaries is defined as semi-transparent!) In reality, opaque (does not allow light to pass at all), translucent (allows light to pass partially or diffusely) and transparent (allows light to pass uninterrupted) are words like unique that can't be used with degrees. 

[krsilber]

I disagree.  Something can be highly translucent or slightly translucent - I imagine there are even ways of measuring the degree of translucency, i.e., the amount of light it lets through.  And tranparent means light can go through something without diffusion so you can see the image on the other side clearly.  That doesn't mean it doesn't interrupt any of the light, or it would be invisible.  Colored glass, for instance, can be transparent - light is absorbed, reflected and transmitted, but not diffused.  Frost it, and it turns translucent rather than transparent.