Topic: Enameled Vases - French?

[aa]

If we were voting, I'd be voting decanters.

[krsilber]

The sample Frank shows is a water decanter for the bedside, with the upside down matching tumbler not shown.

This surprises me.  I wouldn't have thought someone would put a delicate-looking crimped rim on something designed to hold an inverted tumbler.

Not sure why people insist this is a "vase" - the item is unsuitable for holding flowers or even feathers.  The matching code on the bottom indicates there have been stoppers. I have yet to see 2 digit "inventory numbers", it makes no sense.

I, for one, don't insist these are vases.  I don't feel very strongly about it one way or another, and actually the rim type does suggest decanters.  I think I'll withdraw my "vote" and just say I don't know.

Not all stoppers have a ground seat, especially not in a vulnerable slender necked vessel where you would be more likely to use a light hollow blown conical one which either sits on the turned out rim or uses the conus.

My point about the ground seat is that would more strongly support the idea that the codes on the bottom were for a specific decanter-stopper match, rather than having interchangeable stoppers.

And I entirely disagree with the statement that "in the end it is all opinion". I find it quite insulting to rate the contributions of others in this way.

I certainly don't want to insult anyone!  There's nothing disrespectful about saying people are giving opinions.  Some opinions are very well-informed, but they are still opinions, not facts.  There has simply not been any concrete evidence (such as the design in a reference of some sort) posted to state factually one way or another whether these are vases or decanters.  That the code on the bottom is for a matching stopper is an assumption, not a fact, regardless of its likelihood.

EDIT:  This vase appears to have some sort of code on it, far left in the photo of the bottom.
http://www.rubylane.com/shops/the-vault/item/A-711

[Lustrousstone]

Re vases, vases were not originally designed to hold anything, they were, and in fact still often are, ornaments in their own right

[Frank]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decanter seems to miss the point. ... but a carafe is a decanter in French which can have a stopper - or not. 

That is Wikipedia for you, opinions and confusion! In theory some can go and correct that article but increasingly it seems to be driven by corporate PR departments selling their position.
quote: The Venetians reintroduced glass decanters during the Renaissance period
quote: Free-blown, wheel-cut carafes. First half of 11th century. Excavated at Teppe Madraseh, Neishapur, Iran.

The sample Frank shows is a water decanter for the bedside, with the upside down matching tumbler not shown.

I don't think so, it was a prestigious piece of engraving for a major exhibition, why only illustrate part of it?

But as Ivo points out the difference between carafe and decanter would appear to be artificial, at what point did the usage of the terms change in English glass? A US catalogue for 1900 uses both caraffe (sic) and water bottle to name the design of a water container that can have a tumbler. S&W at the same time also used the term caraffe (sic) to describe these. S&W also used the terms; Jug, Bottle but not decanter. I would suggest that the conventions are merely a modern desire for homogenity in terminology and that it as useful to know what terms the makers and resellers at the time of production used but that it is largely irrelevant unless the object is going to be used. Not many collectors (I do though) actually use their more precious objects, so glass ornament becomes equally applicable. So in this case the discussion of what it is seems irrelevant, only the original catalogue entry will clarify its original purpose... so who made it.. now that is interesting.

[Andy]

Re vases, vases were not originally designed to hold anything, they were, and in fact still often are, ornaments in their own right

I agree Christine

Lets not worry about what they are, the question was,

Hi, it's been suggested to me that these may be French (Legras? Mont Joye?). Any here agree/disagree? Any thoughts on a maker? Thanks!

I sometimes have soup in a cereal bowl! 

Andy

[Andy]

Just found this,
http://www.glasshound.com/Legras_art_glass_vase_stdenis_342.html

similar enameling, he says found in 1888 Legras catalogue, Japanese style enameling.

Andy

[Ivo]

Legras is most likely

the dianthus theme is standard fare in all enameled Legras. Really.