Topic: Who is the baccarat who signed this vase and how old?

[Glasshound]

more pics...

[Glasshound]

last pic!

[tonyatl]

c'est magnifique monsieur. vous avez reponde bien.

this is really a dream answer because it shows multiple instances of the signature and other vases which fit the look and feel of the vase about which i was puzzled.

although i certainly accept as plausible the signature being a later addition i also cannot rule out the signature being part of the production process. i say that because we now see too many vases with the signature - the idea being that it was a marketing ploy (assuming that no artist named baccarat worked at smith brothers.)

as noted previously i don't think that the quality is high enough for mt washington and don't think that that company would stoop to such a hokey stunt to sell glass. the smith brothers company is another story. not that their wares are bad - they are quite lovely - but i could see them having more motivation to use baccarat signature. however this is all speculation on my part and is rather immaterial to my understanding about the age or origin of the glass. it is most certainly american.

in any event, thank you so much for posting the images - they are really quite helpful. this has been good stuff.

[Mike M]

Wow what amazing stuff!

Thanks for posting them all

Someone had quite an industry going producing these -almost a shame they put on 'that signature' the pieces stand well on their own. It does look quite possible that the signatures were put on originally - I guess they thought they'd be safe from proscecution being across the atlantic.

Are they hot or cold enamelled? They look cold enamelled ie painted.

I've never seen anything like the in Europe!

fascinating -thanks!

Mike

[Lustrousstone]

I have just looked up the registration of Baccarat as a trademark in the UK (often gives European registration) and US databases and it seems they didn't bother to register the name as a trademark until 1969 at the earliest. So that means those marks were never "illegal" and almost certainly not fake. It is possible a decorator used the name to draw attention to his wares, equally it could have been his name or the one he chose for his company. The shame lies more in the arrogance of Baccarat.

The question remains who was Baccarat in the context of these lovely items?

You would be surprised at how many trademarks are ostensibly the same, even within the same category, yet have different owners. It is also not wise to assume that because something is famous, it is trademarked, and also that anything originating from an unfamous company is "fake" because it has the same name as a famous one.

[aa]

I can't tell from all the images but it seems as if some of the feet are mould blown and some are applied hot and I wonder if this could be significant in any way. Also, some of the feet are black and I can't tell whether the colour is painted or actually in the glass.

I think that Baccarat were producing black glass around this period and if a clear blank with a black applied foot was used it could possibly have been bought from Baccarat and enamelled by an independent painter.

[Glasshound]

All the vases that I've seen signed "Baccarat" are painted "milk glass" with a large polished pontil on the base...

Blair

[Glasshound]

I wanted to make a comment on the signature "style" on these vases. For such beautifully painted vases you would think that the original producer would of been more consistent and "accurate" in reproducing their own signature. Most of the signatures were produced by a tool that scratched away the paint down to the milk glass that's why they appear "white" in color. One of the examples I provided shows a "blue" painted signature (why the change in signature style?). Last but not least is the signature on the pink vase which looks like a factory stamp of some sort. Of all the signatures shown, my opinion is that the signature on the pink vase is the "real mccoy".

Blair

[Lustrousstone]

It is possible that the different individuals used variations on the Baccarat as their ID within the refinery. The pink one's signature does have the closest resemblance to "the Baccarat's" mark.

[Frank]

Has anyone checked with the Baccarat museum, not always quick to reply... but in detail when they do.