Topic: Tiffany & Co Rock Cut Crystal Or FAKE?

[norcalglassman]

Hello from California, I have 3 of these Tiffany & Co Crystal Claret Wines but they are not marked on bottom. They are the same size as the only other ones I could find on the web {Replacement.com}. But from all I read Tiffany marks all their wares. The crystal is perfect {not that I’m an expert} but this is good glass. The weight seems right for a glass this size. They look like the Rock Cut pattern made by Tiffany in 1994. They are also not a high-end pattern; they don’t sell for hundreds of dollars. Best I can tell maybe. 50-$100. So are they fake? Would a company fake a glass in this class that isn’t old, isn’t vintage and isn’t high end? Does anyone know what Tiffany does with its molds after production? I do believe they are indeed real, but they aren’t marked. I did read a topic a few weeks back about many company’s not marking there glass and what the world collectors might need to do about that, does anyone remember what the topic was called? I like to read it again. Thank you
Tim

[Sarahw]

No one ever replied to this message:  I hope it is not wrong to stale-post now.  I don't know if this is "rock cut" as I am unfamiliar with the claret glasses in the pattern.   However,  there might be a pressed mark if it truly is,  a back to back P  (looking something ike a mushroom) impressed into the glass - at least some of the rock cut was of Peill and Putzler manufacture (a German company).    Also the rock cut pattern was developed by Van Day Truex, whose mid-century tenure with Tiffany was between 1955 and 1967 - about a dozen years later he was temporarily coaxed out of retirement to work as design director again:  he dies shortly thereafter in 1979.  I am skeptical that this pattern first saw the light of day in 1994,  although I suppose it is possibly a posthumous pattern.   Perhaps certain pieces were introduced in 1994 or re-introduced into the catalog?   I certainly would welcome solid information on the point.  The P&P mark might be any time from 1964 to 1997.

[Sarahw]

fyi - The "rock cut" pattern,  at least in the form of candlesticks, dates at LEAST as far back as 1983 - as they are specifically pictured and discussed in books by John Loring (Tiffany's successor to Van Day Truex shortly before Truex's death in 1979,  to whom Loring credits design of the pattern). one of which is published in 1983.  I suspect the pattern is even older, but cannot find specific information on the point.  Tiffany archives has a 1000 dollar fee for non-scholarly inquiries so unless they waive that fee I will not be getting a definitive answer through them.
Truex was Tiffany's director of design from 1955 -1967,  and then came out of semi-retirement to fill that position again in 1978 - but not for long.  He died in April 1979 and had already sought Loring to succeed him before his death.

It may well be that some Rock cut pieces were not introduced until a later time (e.g., 1994) but I can't find any definitive source.
  The claret glasses are not available for purchase through the Tiffany websites any longer,  but such glasses were made in the pattern for Tiffany at one time.

[antiquerose123]

Hi there:
I do not know much about TLC as I have never held a piece, but I imagine someone will be able to help you.

.....No problem to *bump* an older topic, as sometimes they are missed,  You did right by re-bumping it, IMHO.    and Glad you did !! 

[Sarahw]

 I'm expecting proof in the form of a Tiffany catalog that the pattern dates at least as far back as the 1970-71 season.

This makes more sense, if Truex designed/commissioned the pattern

[Sarahw]

Oh and also I got some more examples of this pattern  (in plates) without any Tiffany mark,  but WITH a Peill and Putzler mark.   (the little embossed back-to-back Ps that looks like a mushroom or droopy T)

[norcalglassman]

Sarahw, Thank you so much for the update. Im very happy you posted new info on the glasses. I will look for the PP mark, They are packed away right now. Would love to fine more of this pattern ,set of  6  Wines.
Thank you again,, This weekend I will be using all your great info, to search   the Web,,,

[beaubow]

I may or may not be pointing out the completely obvious, but Tiffany & Co has always contracted out to other companies for the glass and china they sell.  In some cases, the contracted company is allowed to mark the items with their name, in other cases, not.

Tiffany's has also allowed companies to sell patterns that were originally designed for Tiffany's in the open market.  For instance, Van Day Treux designed a pattern called Wild Strawberries for Tiffany's.  It was made by Wedgwood (after much arm-twisting on Treux's part) and was such a success that Wedgwood was allowed to market it to other retailers.

Stangl Pottery in New Jersey also had a similar arrangement with one of the patterns it made for Tiffany's (Town and Country?).

So it may well be that P&P marketed the pattern under its own name at some point.

[norcalglassman]

beaugow, as long as i can find Peill and Putzler pattern for this line is fine with me. I Just really want a set of at least 6 of the wines.
And now i start my search this weekend,,  :chky:  Replacements has the wines at $80usd each,, in The Tiffany's  ,, ouch,,,