Topic: Preventing Breakages

[ardy]

I have recently lost a piece of glass that was broken in our postal system and I suspect it is one of the main reasons glass gets broken.

Are there suggestions/instructions about packaging glass for postage?

I would like to minimise this problem. It is all very well to get an insurance payout but losing an old and likely not to be found by you again piece, takes it in a different direction than just money.

[Jay]

With several bad experiences in the past, we have now posted the packing instructions on our website.

Since doing so we have only had one breakage, and the sender agreed to reimburse us (partly) after we pointed out that the instructions (which were part of our agreement) had not been followed.

http://www.hogelandshoeve.nl/index99.html


I'd be happy to supply this material to anyone who wants it for their own website,

[Dave the Glass]

you could employ Margaret she has done over 1000 for me with no problems 
Let's hope that's not the kiss of death

[ardy]

Thanks Jay - I hope it's OK with you I copied your web page and will clean it up so that I can email it with confirmation. Will mention you.

regards

Ardy

[Pinkspoons]

For UK members - Royal Mail won't accept newspaper as a suitable buffering material in compensation claims - it has to be bubblewrap and/or polystyrene peanuts/chips.

Also to meet basic compensation requirements there has to be at least 5cm / 2" between the item and the wall of the box.

http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content1?catId=27300662&mediaId=400251

[aa]

Of course everyone has their own methods and preferences, but over more than 20 years of packing glass for overseas shipment by post or courier I have become more and more cantankerous in my views about how to pack and what materials work.  :rn: In my view polystyrene peanuts/chips are one of the worst forms of packaging available!  I have received more broken glass packed this way than any other. They are also very messy and time consuming to unwrap. If you do have to use them my preference would be only to use them as a filler between an inner box and an outer box. Bear in mind that like cereal, they settle in transit, so you need to shake them down.

I am also not a fan of bubble wrap. Jiffy foam is much better. Quality of board used in the cardboard box is also paramount.

The most important thing to remember is that as soon as you hand your parcel over to the post office or shipper you are consigning it to an organisation where it is going to pass through maybe as many as a dozen pairs of hands. None of the owners of those hands are anywhere near as attached to the contents as you are, and there is a pretty good chance that at least one of them will be having a bad day.

If shipping overseas there is also a possibility that your parcel will be opened by customs. In such cases the person opening will want to open really fast and repack really fast and will not repack to the same careful standard. So you need to make the package easy to open, unpack and repack!

All in all you need to consider and allow for the fact that there are people out there who are going to handle your beloved glass who do not give a @*@* about whether it is going to arrive intact. Plan for this and the materials  may cost more, it may take more time to pack, but the chances of getting it there safely will increase!

[Pinkspoons]

Of course, whilst ideal such things aren't really practical for sites like eBay where feedback equates to reputation and buyers generally grumble at any P&P charges over actual shipping costs. I've had a few odds and sods on eBay recently to clear out older stock, and have been rated low on P&P charges when the most I've ever included is 80p - £1 for packing.

[Ohio]

I totally agree with AA regarding plastic peanuts. They can shift during transit. For 15 years I have used shredded newspaper with a rather decent success (2 claims out of approx 2,200 shipments) although granted it does pack "heavy". I believe the most common error are those who attempt to use an inadequate sized box which is far too small to allow enough room for proper cushioning. I've seen many damage complaints here on line in the US because of the use of USPS Priority Mail flat rate boxes.  The large 12X12X8 non-flat rate box is suitable for many items however there are an increasing number of people who are using the smaller 12X12X5.5 or the 11X8.5X5.5 flat rate boxes & while they save on shipping costs they offer inadequate protection in many cases when people "jam/cram" pieces into them. Ken

[obscurities]

I have shipped both glass, and also vintage electronics including turntables, tube (valve) components and the like for about 10 years now. I have shipped all over the world from Seattle. I have shipped items successfully weighing anywhere from 1 lb to 40 lbs using this method. I have never double boxed an item and have used only bubble wrap and peanuts. I have always used large bubble wrap, never the stuff with the small ones.

The US Post Office also views paper as an unsatisfactory packing material and will generally not pay claims unless the item is double boxed, and done very well. The problem with paper is that it compresses very easily allowing for motion inside the box during transport. I even looked at a type of packing paper that is available to me that is coated on one side with a thin layer of a rubber like material to help it hold it's shape and decided that it too would compress during shipping.

My experience with double boxing is that it increases the cost of shipping an item, and in turn decreases the amount one can get for product, as the end user generally sees the whole thing as one purchase, and is willing to spend less on product if the items shipping cost is higher. If their budget total, for example, is $100, they really don't care if it is $90 for the item and $10 for shipping, or if it is $80 for the item and $20 for shipping. I have never tried to make money on shipping, but I really like getting $90 for my item instead of $80.

The increased use of US Postal flat rate boxes for shipping is driven by the buyers desire to ship inexpensively coupled with the sellers desire to get more for their product. These two desire are diametrically opposed to each other. I only charge a fee on ebay for packing for large items such as electronics and always divulge that in large text in the auction listing itself. In those cases I charge as much as $15 which buyers are willing to pay. I do know that when I charge the fee for packing materials, it is generally coming off of the bid price of the item I am selling. It is part of the cost of doing business through the internet.

My shipping method is to wrap the item well in large bubble wrap. Generally I wrap it around 3 inches thick around the object to be shipped. I then put a good layer of peanuts in the bottom of the box (2-3 inches deep). I lay the item on top of the peanuts and then put the four flaps straight up. I then cover the item with peanuts assuring that there is a good quantity between the object and the sides of the box. In many cases I will flex the box sides out one at a time to allow for a few more peanuts to fall in the space. I fill the box to about 1-2 inches over what will be the top edge of the box, and then compress the contents using the flaps that I am going to tape closed. In most cases the top of the box will be bowed upwards slightly from the compression, as I pack very tight.

I typically use Post Office supplied boxes for mailing most glass, and I custom buy boxes for electronics which generally allow for 2-4 inches of space around an item in all directions. The US Post Office boxes are not the thickest boxes in the world by any means. but even their 12x12x8 inch box weighs in at just under 1 lb. (.45 kg). The empty box would cost just under $5 to ship in the US.

I have found, and I have never lost an item to damage by any shipper (here is where I knock on wood and hope that I have not jinxed myself by saying this), that compressing the peanuts to make sure there is absolutely no movement of the object due to the peanuts being too loose is the key.  I generally allow at least 2 inches or more of space between the bubble wrap and the box. This will increase a little depending on the weight of the object I am shipping.

Most damage I have seen in receiving items is not from overly rough handling during transport, but from "under packing" the item allowing for motion of the object inside the box during shipping. If the item can move at all, it will during shipping. It will either compress paper, if that is used, or it will "rearrange" the peanuts and make it's way to the box, and eventually suffer damage from the smallest impact.  The key is in the compression of the box with the peanuts inside. It needs to take some effort to make it square up to tape.

I have shipped in excess of 1200 items successfully using this method.

Craig

[TxSilver]

I have to add a couple of things. How to pack glass depends on how fragile it is. Fragile glass should be packed with at least 4 inches between it and the outer wall. Heavier, less fragile glass should do well with 2-3 inches.

I use a lot of bubble wrap. I wrap one way until I cannot see the glass, then wrap again going the other direction. I use the wrap with small bubbles because it is soft against the glass and provides much more shock absorption. If I feel it is needed, I add a layer of big-bubble bubble wrap around the outside. I secure the wrap with a single long strip of scotch tape -- it drives me crazy when someone sends me glass that is mummified in heavy tape. I guess they think it is a wild animal that will thrash about, trying to escape. Then I measure the dimensions of the wrapped object and add 4-8 inches to determine the box size needed. I line the bottom of the box with big-bubble bubble wrap and use packing peanuts. Peanuts shift, so can accommodate shock if the box drops. Then a piece of big-bubble wrap on top if it is needed and the box is ready to go. I like the bubble wrap on top and bottom because it pushes back if the box is compressed. Someone on another group said to pack like a box is going to be kicked to its destination. I think this is the only way to do it.

One thing I've discovered is that the shoe-box style priority mail box is a no-no for glass. It is too soft, so compresses easily. I've received a lot of broken glass in these boxes.