Topic: Interesting Engraved Goblet - German? English? Czech?

[oldglassman]

Hi ,
        This might be a good place to start looking ,
http://www.glas-forschung.info/03_glas/schnitt.htm
Cheers ,
           Peter.

[eglass]

Peter, what a great website! Now if I just spoke German. lol - I opened the pdf file linked with one of the items and it looks to be a reference book (in German) but with great photos of horse engravings done by the artists of the period. Many thanks again for the lead and research material!!!

[krsilber]

(This was written before the last 5 replies appeared.  I agree that Pfohl engraved in a similar style, but so did many others, including engravers working for companies in different countries.  The engraving style is definitely Bohemian, but that doesn't really signify much.  As written in Wilson's  American Glass 1760-1930:  "Attribution of Bohemian-style glass to specific glasshouses is difficult, for the style became virtually international.  It is also difficult to date because it continued to be made well into the twentieth century.")

Kelli and I both remarked on the X on the cap.  There's a crossed sword insignia shown in one of the links I posted that denotes cavalry (http://www.ushist.com/victorian_hats.htm), but I just realized you have to click on "Union Hats - USA - Enlisted" under "Civil War" in the upper right to get to the page.

I would think given the detail shown that the insignia would be pretty significant.

I'm not sure about this, and I would appreciate others' input, but I don't remember seeing many Bohemian examples with tight red and white twists in the stem like that found here.  I've seen a lot of other red threading, but it has been much looser (and earlier).  And this is a minor detail, but scenic engraved Bohemian glass I've seen usually has nice, neat tufts of grass.  Something like that could easily vary from engraver to engraver though.

Wish you could see the saddle.  I've looked through my references and found many images of Bohemian engraved pieces with horses and riders.  Most (all but one or two of a dozen) have four reins, and from what I can see they all have nosebands.  Western-style bridles don't have nosebands, but maybe they (or something similar) are used in Europe, too?

Anyway, considering the evidence (including the fact that other Civil War memorabilia was sold by the same people), I'm sticking with my guess that it's American.  You might try sending a few photos to the Corning Museum of Glass.

Kelli, thanks for the additional photos!

[eglass]

Kristi, great idea to send pics to CMOG, to either lay to rest or confirm the American possibility.

We were planning on listing this piece soon - I've held it back for research and because I just LOVE how it looks - and am glad that I kept squirreling it away.  

[oldglassman]

HI ,
        I think if you contact this person you will get all the answers you need , in the past i have contacted them to help with translations on 17thc and 18thc glass and they have always been very helpful ,so I am sure if you send them an email with a photo they will get back to you pretty quickly ,
http://www.glasvonspaeth.com/deutsch/frames.php?id=3&sprache=engl

Cheers ,
           Peter

[krsilber]

After looking at Peter's terrific link, my bridle theory went out the window!  I still have doubts about it being Bohemian though, because of the style of the glass and the rider's uniform.

Are you listing it on ebay?  I'd like to watch the auction.

[eglass]

Peter, I will email them this evening. What a great resource! And I'll be back here to let you know what I find out. Thank you!!

Kristi, yes, it will be eBay - I'll let you know when I end up doing that, it will probably be in a couple of weeks if I'm able to let go of it by then.

[Frank]

I think the hat is European. Although there was little practical regulation on the hats in use in the US civil war this was not really like the typical ones in use. Looks French(ish) to me.

http://www.dirtybillyshats.com/acw1.htm

[eglass]

Frank, I kind of wondered about that little "poufy" feather or plume business up above the hat - almost looked as though it were an engraving mistake but perhaps it's actually part of the hat.

I went ahead and emailed the folks at the website that Peter provided, and hopefully I'll hear back from them - then we'll have more info to add to the mix perhaps. It's definitely intriguing!

[krsilber]

I think the hat is European. Although there was little practical regulation on the hats in use in the US civil war this was not really like the typical ones in use. Looks French(ish) to me.

http://www.dirtybillyshats.com/acw1.htm

The French (at least during WWI, which seems a bit late for this piece anyway) had their insignia on the cuff.
http://www.oldmagazinearticles.com/pdf/French_WW1_Rank-Chart.pdf

To me the cap looks very much like some of the kepis US soldiers wore, with the flat top like that.  But the French wore similar kepis, so that's possible too.

Kelli, do you have a black light?  You might see what color it glows, if any.  Not that that's a definitive answer to anything, but it could be a clue.

This piece fascinates me!