Topic: help with info. on flint Daum vase.

[Paul S.]

not the sort of Daum I dream of finding, but certainly the first signed piece I have been aware of seeing on my travels round the boot sales.  Unfortunately, some degree of water staining (on which I will try Coke/Brasso or whatever).   Simple, completely flat base, showing reasonable amount of wear scratches, and incidentally, the piece is not pink  -  its just the electric light giving a false colour.     Is the signature good, and what sort of age might this be please.   thanks for looking.   Paul S.     

[Mike M]

hi

Its difficult to tell from photos like these, but I'm not too wild about the signature -looks too large but that might just be photo's fault.

The ' D ' looks odd too -well wrong and I'd expect to see a France after it

I would add though the main reference books really only carry signatures up to 1975, but this matches none of them -quite.

sorry -maybe someone can find one I've missed

cheers

Mike

[Sklounion]

Mike,
I agree, usually with a Croix d'Alsace between the Daum and France....
But, as a central european specialist, what would I know?..
M

[Mike M]

Hi Marcus

actually by about 1950 they'd dropped the Cross of Lorraine -but not the France

sorry

Mike

[Sklounion]

Hi Mike,
It was still used on a pair of candelabra, "Jumeau", a design from 1957, and probably later than that.
M.

[Mike M]

Hi Marcus

I 'sit' corrected

Noel Daum's book has it dropped in 1945 but even I've seen early post war pieces with it still on -I'd thought it might have lasted just a few years but obviously it lasted more.

Either way for a large part of the post war period there was often no cross according to Noel Daum's book

cheers

Mike

[nigel benson]

Hi, I was about to post, when your posting came online Mike.

The only book that I have to hand here suggests that the Cross of Lorraine was dropped in 1960, however I think that a book by Noel Daum should be more accurate than one by Ray and Lee Grover - "Contemporary Glass"!!

That said, I think that the question that has not been answered is, "Is this Daum?", since so far the signature is being concentrated on.

Although I do feel with my limited experience the piece is right, you are better placed than I to answer that Mike.

BTB, I think what one can glean from the second photo of the signature the 'D' looks more confident than in the close up in photo 3. Perhaps one like that without the glare of the lights Paul?? (The pink is taken from the background colour I fear).

Nigel

[Margi]

I was just trying to recall a piece of Daum I held at the weekend.  I agree the D is wrong purely going on the signatures I see on a lot of Daum glass here in France.  The D is not so open generally, but I do have to say I cant remember if all pieces have had France after Daum.  But what do I know I could be completely wrong and I could have been picking dodgy ones up myself.  If I see more Daum at the glass fair at the weekend I will have a good look at the signature.
Margi

[Paul S.]

thanks everyone for such an erudite input.   I have no knowledge of this factory whatsoever, so cannot contribute anything academic.   Having said that - and having held the piece of course, I can say that it does have a substantial weight and 'feel' to it (tips the scales at 1.6 kilos, and is 19 x 15 cms. in size)  -  reminds me very much of some of the heavy abstract shaped Czech vases from the fifties and sixties.   Get the feeling also that the ground and polished flat base (not really too evident in the pics., I'm afraid) indicates a non cheap piece of glass  -  and as mentioned, the scratches to the base are what you might see on 30 - 50 year old glass.   Given that sort of age, wud there have been any mileage in creating a forged sig. back then?     I appreciate that the water staining doesn't necessarily mean a great deal, but am I right in thinking the level of stain we can see might also indicate some reasonable age??     As for the sig., it looks confident in the sense that it has been applied 'smoothly' - without wobbling or going slowly.  Hesitant sigs. can be an indication of fraud.  Later today I will try to take a better pic. of the sig.  - I found it very difficult the first time  -  again I think the camera has a problem with focusing at the surface level of clear glass  -  and it is a curved part of the vase of course. Sorry also about the pics. showing pink, it really is just completely clear.       Thanks again and as it only cost me a quid, and can actually be used for flowers, I am quite happy whatever it may be (but really wud have liked it to be Daum!)      cheers    Paul S.

[Paul S.]

I have now taken some better pics. of the sig. - as shown - so hope these may help with possible verification.    cheers     Paul S.