Topic: plinth for what please??

[Paul S.]

I'm going to take a gamble that whatever sat originally on this was produced in the U.K.    Goes without saying that it is indeed black glass, as you wud expect  -  about 9.5 cms. high and about 14 cms. wide  -  although I'm not sure which way up it is supposed to sit.   In fact the 'wear ring' is on the topmost rim of the least wide end, which is not the way up that I wud have imagined it to be.   But perhaps this wear was not caused by contact with the surface on which it sat  -  but rather the plinths 'other half'.    No marks unfortunately.      Wud be grateful if someone knows what the other half actually was, and thanks for looking.    Paul S.

[David E]

Looks like Bagley to me. The smaller diameter is to the top. It is shown in the Bagley book supporting the No. 3186 bowl

[Paul S.]

thanks David  -  it certainly makes sense that way round  -  bit like the two tier cake stands, with widest at the bottom.   All I need now is the bowl   thanks again. Paul S.

[Bernard C]

Paul — It doesn't look like a Bagley plinth at all.   There is only one style of plinth that "looks" Bagley, and that is their round plinth with the wobbly bottom.   The only reason that other plinths they used "look Bagley" is that we are accustomed to seeing them in Bagley reference books and websites.

You can be reasonably certain that special shapes of plinth made to fit exclusive ranges by a glassworks were made at that glassworks, as also were plinths of which some were made in colour.   Some black circular and even possibly square plinths may have been made elsewhere, and their moulds may have changed ownership from time to time.

Yours is one of these possibilities as it's also Walther plinth No. 3, listed in their 1937 catalogue in three sizes, made to support their Berlin bowl, of which you will find three plinthed examples from Pamela's museum shown on her website.   Possibilities include:

The two styles are actually slightly different, but we haven't yet compared two well-provenanced examples side by side to tell, or

One glassworks made them and supplied the other, or

The mould changed hands at some time from one to the other, or

A combination of the last two.

I hope that helps.  :angel:

Bernard C.  

[Paul S.]

Bernard  -  thanks for the comprehensive reply  -  and I appreciate the points you are making.     Now here comes the ironic part of the story.
This plinth came from a charity shop in Tunbridge Wells, Kent - and whilst in the same shop I rather hurriedly purchased a pink bowl, which I put to one side when I got home.   You can imagine my embarrassment when, reading your notes about the 'Berlin' bowl, to discover in fact that this is the exact bowl that I had bought in the same shop.    Obviously, as an assembled 'pair' the whole thing becomes a rather large to have on a shelf, and presumably the two parts were separated to avoid any mishaps.    It was a conincidence that I purchased them idividually in the same shop, although now they are re-united.    Sincere thanks for your help, and pics are now attached of the complete 'bowl and plinth'.   Paul S.

[Bernard C]

Paul — Congratulations.   What an excellent outcome.   Just let me know where to send the invoice!   

...   presumably the two parts were separated to avoid any mishaps.   ...

Not necessarily.   I once purchased a three piece set from a local charity shop in weekly installments.   It turned out that the three parts were in different boxes, all from the same house clearance, which they unpacked one by one as shelf space became available.

Bernard C. 

[dirk.]

I wonder if this really is a ´Berlin´ bowl? The center is different to my example shown below.
The pattern of the rim doesn´t match the examples shown on Pamela´s sites - neither in
the photo section, nor the catalogue print.
Is this a  Walther bowl or is it another look-alike?
Pamela, would you mind taking a look at the center of your Berlin bowls, please? Do they
all look the same?
http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/tafelaufsaetze/00677.html
http://www.glas-musterbuch.de/Walther-1937.76+B6YmFja1BJRD03NiZwcm9kdWN0SUQ9MzIwOCZwaWRfcHJvZHVjdD03NiZkZXRhaWw9.0.html

[Bernard C]

Paul & Dirk — Many years ago I had both bowls in stock at the same time, and they have identical plinth fittings.   This has been discussed here before.   One was Walther Berlin, the other was by STS Abel, apparently supplied on a bought-in plinth from Walther.   Much of this research was by Angela Bowey, the GMB's revered proprietor, bless her little cotton socks.  

See:

http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/tafelaufsaetze/02854.html

http://www.glassnewsletter.com/091013news.html

http://www.glassencyclopedia.com/STSglass.html

Bernard C.  

[Bernard C]

Caution — Please take care not to assume that STS Abel supplied the plinths — they could have left it to their agents / wholesalers to buy in the plinths directly from Walther or from Walther's agents / wholesalers.

Bernard C. 

[dirk.]

Thanks, Bernhard. I must have missed the STS Abel bowl on Pamela´s site.  :sleep: