Topic: Fenton confirmation request for carnival bowl

[Paul S.]

Have seen from David Dotty's site that that is called 'Sailboats' by Fenton - although this piece without the 'F'  -  was this design exclusive to Fenton  -  as believe that some patterns produced by more than one manufacturer.   Unfortunately, the silver plate has gone completely from the metal base, and although I have tried running down the letters 'HBB', I've had no luck yet   -  of course it may well be a minor sliver plater from the states - but I'm still looking.    6.25 inches/160mm dia. at the widest.   Would be grateful if someone is able to indicate an approximate date range, and let me know to which of the carnival colours this belongs.     Many thanks.     P.S.    sorry, haven't got around to this book yet  

[Lustrousstone]

I think it's classic carnival, therefore early and won't be marked. There is nothing I can find in Glen's books beyond a brief mention. This is a Fenton pattern. Can't tell the colour on a green background. An old white sheet or pillowcase or a large piece of paper is always good for a background for any glass. Carnival is rarely found on metal in my experience and this sort of base seems to be a UK sort of thing. (Walther even produced items for metal fitments specially for the UK) It's much more likely that the metal was added here.

[Paul S.]

thanks Christine  -  not sure of your idea of dates for 'early' classic carnival, but I would have thought pre 1940, judging by the EPNS base (and the fact that all the plate has now been rubbed away.     Am at work now, but will take some more pics. this evening  -  with a more suitable background.   In the flesh, the colour of the bowl looks good on the green................but we won't go down that road again ........so white it will be.      Off the cuff, I would have said the colour is more akin to 'amber'........it certainly isn't 'marigold'  -  and I think it's more attractive than 'marigold', more delicate perhaps.

[Lustrousstone]

Classic carnival was made from about 1907 to 1927 in the USA. Note I didn't say early classic carnival. Late carnival is late 1920s/early 1930s through to the 1950s. Contemporary carnival was/is made from the 1960s onward in the USA. This only applies to US carnival. Sailboats doesn't appear to have reproduced by Fenton.

The colour of carnival glass is defined by the base glass colour. Sounds like yours is colourless, therefore it's marigold.

[Paul S.]

the attached picture taken in dull daylight - and the base glass is indeed colourless, so it is 'marigold' then.   But whatever, I think this is for keeps, as it is an attractive bowl, and probably my earliest piece of carnival.   thanks again.

[antiquerose123]

 :hi: Ebay has a tray that is marked HBB, EPNS, says Victorian..........just a FYI.

Click Here 

[Paul S.]

thanks Rose  -  although presumably they dont say who HBB were/are either .   I haven't done much looking re that aspect yet - too busy trying to clean and sort out last weekend's glass  -  but I will try again.   If in the meatime you find out who, please let me know.    When I realized the glass was Fenton, I immediately thought the whole thing was from your side of the pond - but in view of the suggestion about possible British involvement re the stand, I'm now no wiser as to what the answer is.   thanks again.      Paul S.

[antiquerose123]

Found this little quibble about Glass and adding the bases to them, scroll down:
http://www.carnivalglass.org.au/Gallery%204.htm

Quoted from that Link above:
"Wholesalers and retailers of Carnival Glass sometimes added silver plated attachments to the piece of glass to make it appear more attractive to buyers. This 9" wide ruffled 'Holly' bowl by Fenton comes on a very pretty EPNS stand. The bowl itself was made in a variety of colours, and a marigold one would normally sell for between $A70 and $A100. The silver stand does not add significantly to the value, in this case probably around $A30-$A50 extra."

But no info on what the marks were on that bowl -- alas.. 

[jsmeasell]

The Fenton pattern that Carnival collectors call "Sailboats" originated with us about 1911 and the small nappies that are finished as bowls or plates were our No. 1774 (there are also goblets and wines, and these were our No. 1802). The metal stand could be contemporary with the glass or it could have been added years later. In either case, it's not something the Fenton factory has done. 

[Paul S.]

James - sincere thanks for your input, and this just might have the potential to be quite old then.    Unfortunately, Electro plated piece are very rarely marked with a date, although I believe that the English company of Elkington did use a date letter, although whether they did so all the time I am unsure.   As far as the U.K. goes, I believe that the letters EPNS were shown more commonly on metalwork from the late C19 onwards, although the process itself goes back a lot further than that.       Your comments support Lustrousstone's suggestions that the base may well have been added later, here in the U.K. possibly.    Apparently, the style of metalwork can sometimes be an indication of date, but I'm not too well up on the these bases to say, other than that it looks very 1920 - 1930 to me, and the style of lettering for the EPNS is quite ornate with the 'double lines', so may well indicate the 1920's.   But whatever, it is a fine piece of carnival, and will be kept by me.   thanks to all for the help.    Paul S.