Topic: Art Deco green vase red 'flame' splotches - Schneider

[flying free]

Thanks Dirk
well, what we have so far is:

- a vase id'd in Miller's as WMF Geislingen (same decor and colour vase as mine, different shape but same spirit) in 2005, and that Miller's vase had been sold on VZeschwitz in 2005 at auction attributed to WMF Geislingen.

- a WMF Ikora vase in red with a more traditional Ikora decor and colour but with a wide turned over rim in a very similar vein to
 a vase that is the same colour and decor as mine, but different shape and with turned over rim, but marked with an etched capitals SCHNEIDER mark on the foot edge rim and with a mark that is difficult to see, but looks as though it is right from what can be seen.

I'm really not trying to make mine either of these attributions - but what I would add to the above is-
For:
- In a similar vein to Ikora, mine has a decor in vertical lines in the green background which Ikora were fond of using
- Weight and thickness of glass seems right for WMF bearing in mind I am comparing a massive 14 tall vase with one that is approx 10 inches so there will be some variation I suppose.
- The pontil mark is the same as some I have seen on WMF pieces, ground smoothly but not polished
- And now one the same as mine has been found that has an unusual turned over rim that is the same as an Ikora vase (again unusual for WMF Ikora)

Against:
-One has been found with a marking 'SCHNEIDER' on it, in the correct place and looks as though it is a genuine mark although it's difficult to see it clearly because of the decor of  the vase and the pics (right on the edge of the foot rim)
- I can't find the shapes in the WMF books, and although the decor is a possible, I can't be sure on the colours
- I secretly think mine might be Czech because I feel sure my Frantisek Koudelka for Prachen vase was somewhat inspired by it somehow
- I also think though I can't be sure, that the thickness of the glass etc could maybe have been a maker such as Hantich (maker of the Johnolyth vases) for example

I'm not convinced either way at the moment, although if pushed I would lean towards not WMF and not Schneider

m

[dirk.]

Sorry for playing the devilīs advocate again, but Iīd like to cross out the pontil mark from
the īforī-list. From my experience there isnīt such a thing like the typical Ikora base
treatment. Iīve had snapped-off pontil mark, slightly fire-polished, ground and polished
pontil mark, additionally ground base, base completely ground, ground and polished base
with roughly ground pontil scar... 
(hope you still like me) 

[flying free]

yes, I agree - all I was saying is that the pontil mark being smoothly ground and not polished cannot rule out it being from WMF as that type of pontil mark has been seen on some of their pieces
Yes I still like you 
And I don't think this is a WMF piece   but feel I have to keep exploring the option just in case.
m

[dirk.]

Now I can agree with your 1st statement, be relieved with your 2nd and go to sleep
with your 3rd...   
Need to get up in t-5h....
(Dirk wants back the hug-emoticon)

[flying free]

Vase with rolled turn over rim here signed Le Verre Francais -  (a Schneider mark)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230963657858?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

It's not the same shape as the previous one I linked to and I suppose all it proves is that the rolled turned over rim is a design device used in the 30s 
I'm still on the case - the maker has to be out there somewhere 

I'm certain they date to the 30s or thereabouts, because of the shapes and that there is signficant wear on the base of my vase and of the other one with the same decor. 
It's possible the maker was Kralik perhaps or someone like Hantich (the type of glass and size and weight is similar to Johnolyth vases).
But the design of the vase and the way the green has vertical stripes and then with the flame splotches at the base and going up, reminds me very much of Welz designs.  However...the thickness of the glass, the type of glass, the size, etc is nothing like any Welz glass I have seen.

Just for interest there is an example photograph here in the last picture, of some Loetz 1930s shaped vases
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/41794-loetz-ausfhrung-c-wave-optic-variant

[dirk.]

And Iīm a fan of your persistency. 

[flying free]

  thank you

m

[flying free]

another green and red vase, different shape, also signed ... Schneider.
http://fieldingsauctioneers.co.uk/lot/105061

Two find one, signed Schneider, that is the same colours and technique but different shape (the one with the turned over rim) being sold in the US, and query it is one thing.  But to find another a different shape, same colours, slightly different technique in the way the colours have been laid on, also signed Schneider is too much of a coincidence.  Anyone else agree?

m

[flying free]

'To' find one    not 'two' find one.

m

[dirk.]

Mmh, undecided... I think the Schneider vasesī decor is a bit different to the one on the vases this
thread started with.
Hence I think weīre still on the look-out for a maker...