Topic: ID help on antique engraved glasses

[suzzi]

Hi there, I was wondering if anybody recognizes the cutting on these glasses. They are about 4.5" tall and have a broken pontil. I am pretty sure they are English. Circa 1800-20....maybe?
Any info would be greatly appreciated.  https://picasaweb.google.com/107249354723498903703/Mar15201103?feat=directlink

[Lustrousstone]

How round are the feet and is that a flat ground rim? The latter indicates Continental Europe to me. I also don't think they are as old as you think they are. I would expect more greyness to the glass; those look yellowish.

[suzzi]

Hi there, the bases are 2.6" across. The rims are rounded, not ground down. One appears to have been reduced slightly. I might say they look "older" in real life. The feet are wavy, and a little misshaped. I understand what you are referring to as the grayness of older glass, flint types. These are more crystal than flint, and not too heavy. But, not crystal from Europe circa 1880-onward. I don't think they are French, and Bohemian Glass was much heavier at the base for this time frame. They only used thin glass post Biedermeier as far as I know. I have seen the same type of engraving on early Stiegel glass from the second half of the 18th C., but that was on the flint types which you were referring to. That is why I was thinking English. But, that is where my information has run out at. So, not 18th C., and not post circa 1880...Maybe English? or even Scandinavia?

[suzzi]

This goblet is on Portobello. About half way down with the facet stem. To me it looks pretty close.
http://www.portobelloglass.com/goblets.html

[KevinH]

I have always thought that (most) faceted stems from the late 18th century were deeper cut and the diamonds were "squarer". Which is what I see on the goblet in the Portobello site. The faceting on the glasses seems to be more elongated and shallower, suggesting a later period than 18th century.

To me, the decorative motif around the bowls appears to be fairly generic in style and might not be easy to attribute to a specific period or country.

But I have not looked through my copy of Bickerton to review my own thoughts. And I have very little in the way of references to 19th century glasses.

[oldglassman]

Hi,
            Facet cut glasses of this type are always problematical,period ones being made in England and Belgium and probably other countries to,then we have the 20th c revival examples though these are most frequently taller cordial types with thicker stems and  rather poor wheel engraving of flying birds ,and to the unwary have all the looks of a late 18thc glass

These glasses look to me to be late 18thc early 19thc ,English or Belgian,and in lead glass ,

 I always find the use of the terms Flint and crystal very confusing and I believe incorrect, Flint (crushed pebbles) were used in England in the late 17thc while experimentation was ongoing to improve clarity and durability of drinking glass,after the use of lead oxide became widespread around 1685 or so,glasses were referred to as Single Flint or Double flint,thin or thick glasses,it was thought that this referred to the amount of lead used in the mix but is now known to have been the amount of glass,gathers,used to make the item, less gathers 1 or 2 for single flint glasses then 3 or 4 gathers for double flint , ie what we know as Heavy Balusters today,after 1695 ish Single Flint glasses were generally abandoned in favour of the thicker stronger Double Flint ones and the name to differentiate from the 2 was dropped,after time of course various taxes were implemented which contributed to the evolution of lighter glass,Light balusters and balustroids.etc etc ,    oooooops  I have rambled  :wsh:

Re the cutting, this looks fine to me and is in fact hexagonal facet cutting not diamond facet cutting and will appear longer in form than diamonds, the depth of the cut is of course determined by the thickness of the stem ,too much depth and the stem looks weedy.

The engraving as has already been mentioned is pretty generic and seen in the 18thc, possible 'Vonech'(I hope thats the correct spelling) glassmakers in Belgium in the late 18th and 19thc who made a lot of lead glass facet stem might be worth a little investigation if you are that way inclined ,

anyway having said all that the proof of the pudding is in the hands , so I even now could not say with 100% certainty I am correct.

[suzzi]

Whoa, awesome!!!! You really are THE Oldglassman. It will take me a few times reading that to get my mind around it. I really appreciate it.