Topic: Italian Pinwheel Dish - Murano? Maker?

[obscurities]

I will start by saying this looks like it will glow under black light.... but I am sorry to tell Christine it does not.......   :cry:

The piece measures 5 inches in diameter and 1.25 inches tall.

Looking for suggestions as to who made it...  Very well executed.

TIA  Craig

[langhaugh]

Hi Craig:

Nice bowl. These are really hard to pin down (npi), as quite few makers, both well-known and obscure, did this type of design. I was going to say I'd call this 'a canne' or even 'mezza filigrana' as I tend to associate pinwheel with Fratelli Toso, but, actually looking at the piece, it is a pinwheel. Any idea where the term pinwheel came from? It's not a translation of anything Italian, I don't think.

David

[obscurities]

David, I believe the term originates from an old style toy , where a spinning surface was suspended from a pin on a stick.  The shape of the object would allow for it to spin if moved through the air, or also if held in the wind.  The patterns on the toy would seem to form a spiraling, or pinwheel pattern......  Later the term was applied to spinning discs with patterns that would be driven by a small motor, and the pattern on the flat surface would appear to look, in some cases, like the pattern in this glass... a circular type of pattern, seeming to emit a circular or spinning motion......   

I hope that makes sense.....

Here is a Google search  for:

Pinwheels

Craig

[langhaugh]

Craig:

Thanks for taking the trouble to explain. My bigger question is who applied the term to glass, and is it a Murano term? Just one of many idiosyncrasies, a preoccupation with terminology. I should just appreciate your bowl.

David

[obscurities]

That I do not know.... maybe the Italians invented the pinwheel.....   

I suppose it is also possible and more likely that it is a term applied by the English speaking world due to the appearance of some pieces....

It is better, and fancier, than just calling calling it spiral.....

Craig

[flying free]

I have a question please?  How is it known that this is Italian?  I'm just trying to learn something and having been through pages and pages of Clichy it struck me how there are similarities between some of those pieces and others that we see on the board.  I appreciate the colours may be a deciding factor here and possibly never produced by Clichy for example or elsewhere other than Italy.  Sorry  .... I'm probably the only one who can't just see that this is Italian and couldn't possibly have originated elsewhere, but I'm just trying to learn a bit.
m

[obscurities]

The color combination is the biggest pointer..... I would certainly be open to info pointing somewhere other than Italy for this piece.... but I do not think it will be forthcoming.... 

Thoughts anyone?? 

Craig

[Ivo]

Thoughts anyone?? 

yeah lots. One predominant though: it is as Italian as it gets. Everything just screams Murano - the slightness, the balance, the elegance and the colour combo.  If you say Toso, or Salviati, or Barovier I'd have to agree - without further specifics, as I have no idea who made it.  :pb:

[langhaugh]

couldn't possibly have originated elsewhere

Agreed with Ivo.  Is it in any possible that it could be made elsewhere?  Well, yes. For example, I've seen reticello ( a typically Murano technique) made recently in the USA  that is as fine as any of the reticello I have from Murano. However, the US reticello piece was signed and cost over $2,000 and none of my pieces cost over $100.

It's much easier to copy some of the other Murano techniques, such as sommerso.

There's also scale, which Ivo might be covering by using "slightness." This is not a big piece, which more modern copies tend to be.

M: Do you have a link to a Clichy piece that is similar to this piece? It might be interesting to compare the pieces if you do, and Craig doesn't mind a little detour for his thread.

David

PS After posting this, I read another thread "Latticino from St Louis or Murano" and I understand flying frees question more clearly now.

[flying free]

Hi all, thanks for sharing your thoughts.  I suppose it's because I have very little antique glass and certainly because I have handled so little glass really, that I'm interested to know what the instinctive reaction is to a piece and where one would set about a first search.  I guess it's no different to me recognising more contemporary pieces now I've seen a lot more - and remembering how when I first started collecting glass I really hadn't any clue at all.  And I did manage to find my Clichy jug within about an hour of looking so I suppose my own 'instinct' is improving. 
Also, I have a huge passion for intricate glass, glass that 'does' something rather than plain clear glass.  As time's gone on and I research more, I see some wonderful antique or 'older' glass that I'd really like to own (wouldn't we all   ) and also I'm in awe that such amazing glass was being produced so many years ago.  I have a book that I particularly love called Glass by George Savage and perhaps my question stems slightly from that as well.  On page 13 there is a vase entitled 'Tazza from Millefiore glass. Probably Alexandrian.  First Century AD' and another 'Bowl of 'gold sandwich' glass.  Syrian. Second to Third century AD' - I swear you'd think they were made, if not yesterday, certainly this century.  They are truly amazing.  So I suppose my curiosity is there because of this.  David the link for the Clichy pieces is here - there are many to trawl through and some amazingly beautiful glass - I hope this link works and sorry it is so long 
m
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=KEYMY4_ytuUC&pg=PA151&lpg=PA151&dq=verre+de+clichy&source=bl&ots=pTmKnlGQ_l&sig=U5nlRJvhijH5JRqEhw9KHJQHC0g&hl=en&ei=mZadTeGyDomDhQeV-PWtBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CF8Q6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=verre%20de%20clichy&f=false