Topic: Georgian ??? Trumpet Wine Glass - Any Queries??

[Madam Medusa]

 :help: I have purchased this from a charity shop today and since then, have been researching the web. I have found a few similarities. The rim is not perfectly level when placed upside down on a flat surface. The base stand is also not perfectly round. Could anyone put a makers name or possibly the approximate date made?? Many Thanks  :fr:

[johnphilip]

Not my strong point but it may help someone if you give width of bowl and foot .

[BRADBURY7308]

Hi cant tell from the pictures if its got a polished or sharp pontil scar and i cant see much wear it doesnt from pictures look georgian although the form apppears  similar to georgian trumpet liquer glass from that period also the foot is very narrow might have been ground down to hide a chip at some time that would explain a lack of significant wear?? i find it hard off photographs sorry.

[Paul S.]

Unless this was special in some way, you'd never get a makers name, and as has already be mentioned, the base looks unusually small (in diameter) for a period piece, and rather on the flat side  -  many of the older glasses had domed feet.     Screens can be misleading, but the colour to me looks rather 'white ish'.   Are there any seeds/stones in the glass?     I would also say that with the straight sides to the bowl, then correctly this shape may well be funnel/conical, rather that trumpet (where the sides are very slightly concave).   Look for horizontal and vertical striations on the bowl, also look for the slight 'bump' on the rim, which may be a guide to age  -  and remember, finally, that the Victorians copied everything

[Madam Medusa]

Hello all,  I did not expect a response so soon.  Sorry I forgot to put the measurements.  :t:   The bowl diameter width is 2 1/4" and is oval in shape.  The rim is slightly bumpy.   The foot or diameter base is 2 1/4".  Paying attention to the rim, is uneven. The shape is not perfectly round and does not sit flat on a even surface.  The wine glass rocks from side to side when pushed from the top.  viewing the base from the side, it is clear that the base is tapered towards the stem base.  I have four other wine glasses that were purchased at the same time but they are all different, but relatively the same size in height with slight variation.  Two of the wine glasses have a larger diameter base 2 1/2" with a polished pontil that clearly shows signs of groove marks and wear. The other three wine glasses also have polished pontils, however, these pontils taper inwards more towards the centre of the stem.  Definite signs of wear can be seen on these.  Sorry if the pictures does not help.  I did not put all wine glasses on my initial pictures, as stated before they are all different and felt it would be more confusing.   I have attached pictures of all five since reading your comments and hope this may be of some help.  Not one of them is identical throughout.  I have no knowledge about these types of wine glass and any help is most welcomed.  Thanks for your feedback so far.  :rah: :rah:

[Lustrousstone]

I'm not sure any of them have pontil marks looking at the pictures. A pontil mark certainly won't show signs of wear because it doesn't touch anything. A pontil mark is the area glass left when an item is cracked off the pontil iron. It takes three basic forms: it is a sharp area of glass; it is a lumpy but not sharp area of glass (it has been reheated to smooth it); or it is a roundish area that has been smoothed by grinding and possibly polishing.

[oldglassman]

HI ,
         I think I can say for sure that these are not georgian glasses , they dont appear to have pontil marks,they are in the style of Drawn trumpet ale glasses ,but to the eye just not right for Georgian,at best they look to be very late Victorian or even more recent, and to find 5 period georgian glasses still together after 250 yrs or so is pretty rare.

Cheers ,
             Peter.

[Madam Medusa]

Hello all,  Thanks for your input and possible period made.  I don't think the pictures help very much.  :t:  I have no idea on wine glasses and am solely relying on your help. I have searched through various sites with not much luck to be frank.    I  have checked the glasses over again and the centre of the base on all five are roughly 1/2" in diameter.  This part does not touch a flat surface.  Only the outer perimeter is worn.  On the first picture that shows two wine glasses, from the outer base to the centre is slightly tapered and around the centre there are holes that are less than 1/4".  The base diameter on these are slightly smaller than the other three.  One of these glass has a small air bubble in the stem and a large air bubble on the outer part of the hole within the base.  I have used a magnifying glass to look into the holes and they are both rough with jagged marks. The width of the base at furthest points on both are approximately  2 1/2". Rings can be seen from the centre of the holes to the outer diameter of the base.

The second picture is slightly different to the first two.  The width of the base is just over 2 1/4" and it is clearly visible that it is larger in size.  irregular in shape.  From the outer base a 1/4" inwards is the only part that sits roughly flat on a surface, then descends inwards.  The 1/2" diameter in the centre of the base is jagged and polished.  There are 3 deep grooves in the shape of the letter K.  I don't think this was deliberate.

The third picture shows two glasses that are similar.  The base on both are irregular in shape.  The width is roughly 2 1/2".  Rings can be seen around the bases. The centres  are 1/2" in width and slightly indented.  This part does not touch a flat surface.  Gash marks are clearly visible around the centre area. Sorry if my pictures are not too clear.  All the same, thank you for your help! :rah: :rah:

[Paul S.]

I think the solution to your glasses is that they are cheap 'pub glasses' from somewhere towards the end of the C19.    This would account for their rather basic appearance, also for the flattish base, and most imprtantly of all - the wide variation in measurements.    Some pub rummers and tumblers from the C19 are so unbelievably crude and of rough manufacture that you wonder how anyone would want them  -  the answer being that they probably had a short and eventful life, and so they were made to a price, knowing that they weren't going to last long.   The customers also wouldn't have cared about the quality - they just wanted the contents.  I've seen some glasses with such irregularly shaped feet that you'd think they were made by the blind (or enebriated).   The 'K' mark of which you speak is the 'gadget' mark - an alternative means (to the pontil iron) of holding the glass - used especially during the latter part of the C19.   In fact the mark is referred to as being 'Y' shaped, usually.    I don't see anywhere that you have given the height of these pieces, but if fairly short they might possibly be dram glasses - i.e. for spirits rather than wine or ale - but failing that, then I'm unsure, and we need an expert.

[Anne]

HI ,
         I think I can say for sure that these are not georgian glasses , they dont appear to have pontil marks,they are in the style of Drawn trumpet ale glasses ,but to the eye just not right for Georgian,at best they look to be very late Victorian or even more recent, and to find 5 period georgian glasses still together after 250 yrs or so is pretty rare.

Cheers ,
             Peter.

Thought one had already spoken here?