Topic: Dating Mdina - early seahorse 1973

[flying free]

Unfortunately he is  a teeny bit chipped at the end of the top lip - I can't find another in this shape.  The others all appear to have larger heads and manes and certainly the ones I have had in the past appear to be much heavier and solid shaped.  This one has two clear 'bulbous' bits to the body atop of which sits a very small delicate head and a fine thin pie crust mane.  Dates 1973 (photo not totally clear but it is definitely 1973 not 1978). Signed Mdina Malta 1973.  Measures 12cm tall
I thought this might help with future dating other pieces, writing similarities etc.  According to other posts, these were originally done by Joseph Said as a chess set for a commission but he continued to blow the Seahorse as a stand alone piece. (thanks Sue and I hope I interpreted that right).
m

[chopin-liszt]

I'm sorry, but honestly I do think it's an 8, not a 3. Said took charge (but not as full owner) and had some design input in '75, but I really do not think it likely he was comissioned to do the chess set before that - I know he mastered working glass quite rapidly, but I'm afraid I truly believe that he had absolutely no design input until he was in charge.

[flying free]

Sue thanks,   I have to be intransigent in this one though - it definitely is a 3, there is no question.  Which is why I thought it was interesting and why I bought it despite it being chipped at the lip.  And it isn't a trick of the light or a missed part of the number.
m

[flying free]

this is a Mdina piece signed 1978 for comparison.  

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-1978-Mdina-Glass-Paperweight-Signed-Harris-/250694106018?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a5e887ba2

Ironically I have a Maltese friend here today, who has just drawn me how they do 8's in Malta and they look like the eight on this link.  She said they start from the middle and go down on the left then round the  bottom and then up and hook over the top. (Actually I can't know that ALL Maltese do it that way of course, but she ventured that they do it a curious way and that's how she showed me and said that is how her mother does it....she herself doesn't because she is a teacher of children with special needs here and obviously has learnt to do it the way they teach in school here). She has also looked at the seahorse and confirmed it is a '3' .

so... the mystery deepens then.
m

[chopin-liszt]

I think we may have to agree to differ, then. There is not consistency between an 8 on one bit of glass or another - loads of folk did the marks.
I think it highly unlikely Said would have been commissioned to design anything while Eric Dobson was still there - somebody surely would have commissioned Dobson rather than Said?
I'm afraid (this is my personal opinion obviously) Said, while being a wonderful glassmaker, has no talent for design whatsoever.
Another thing which makes me dubious is I have tried to make a note of the dates which do appear - I haven't found any general date marks (such as this is) before '74.

[flying free]

Sue, my apologies for misrepresenting what you had written, my use of wording was incorrect... I should not have said 'commissioned' and I think that by doing so I have inadvertently caused a red herring in this post. However the post I was referring to did say these were designed by Joseph Said. (But that was in 2008 so information may have changed since then?)

'These "seahorse" chess pieces were designed by Joseph Said - after he'd been asked to make a chess set, he decided to carry on making these Knights as paperweights.'
see link thread here
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,23855.msg133637.html#msg133637

With regards the date,  we can agree to differ but that leaves me holding a seahorse that I can see is definitely dated 1973 from Mdina.   
 The script looks real and right and looks as though it was all done at the same time and not by an amateur. 
The curious thing is that the Seahorse is a different shape and design, to those I have owned and those I can find on the net at the moment in google images.  The mane and the angle of the head being most obviously different. 
Does anyone else have any pics of seahorses that look like mine please?

I suppose my musings are, if I can't find any others that are the same,and given the date on mine, is this piece a precursor to the chess board, or indeed a part of the chess board, and could it mean that Joseph Said was asked to make a chess board fairly early on  in his career and fairly soon after Michael Harris left?
m

[chopin-liszt]

 :hi:
You have interpreted correctly m - Said was, I believe, commissioned to make a chess set, and continued making these Knight pieces afterwards. I have seen several really wonky ones, some with great big bases like yours. They have also been seen with blue tops, (as in outer casings and head) in reds, and in browns.
In the more common blue ones cased in clear, the bases are sometimes random yellowy bits on blue, or with vertical yellowy stripes on blue - kind of sea urchin-y. I've also seen them up to about 9" in height - with big fat bases like yours.
The info. I had about their origins has not been altered or corrected, to my knowledge, and I wrote the bit you quoted.
I suppose the best way to clear all this up would be for you to write to Mdina with pictures of this beast, and ask Said himself!
As it's his work, I imagine you should get a reply. :X:

[flying free]

I'll drop him a line and see if they come back. 
It may also help with dating earlier Mdina in that period you are looking at (although sadly it's not a dated fish  :cry: if only it was a fish with a small chip  I'd be very happy) but still, in it's own way it's a rather cute little piece.
m

[Andy]

It looks like 73 to me too.  :ooh:  and i havent seen that shape before

Just my 2penneth worth

 

[Patrick]

Hi ,
 Why not Boffo....................   Here is a pic of a horse he made while he was at Whitefriars.
Study the nose and the mane.

Regards,
                  Patrick.