Topic: Riihimaen decanter?

[Max]

...and please excuse me double posting:

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,6097.msg52013.html#msg52013

In my defense for not remembering this post, it WAS five years ago!  

and this is a good link from that thread:

http://lisa.hyrinet.fi/aurinkopullo/piraatit.htm

I am beginning to think that the moulds were sent to Italy.

[Greg.]

Thanks Max, I think that might have been the thread I originally found, as you say it was a while ago!

Now you mention it, it does ring a vague bell, that some of the moulds went to Italy, can't remember for sure. There's certainly quite a few Riihimaki designs that appear from Italy, especially the Emma decanters and sun bottles. I know in Andy McConnell's 20th century glass that he mentions some of the sun bottles were copied in Italy and possibly by Bormioli. Some of the small bottles are hard to distinguish, but many of the larger ones do seem to have the 'Made in Italy' markings. Would be interested to know more about the R1 and R2 marks, I suppose its true that if they were Riihimaki production you would see more than do turning up. Certainly intriguing.

[Greg.]

Few pics added of UV Riihimaki Stella Polaris bottle, with Riihimaki export label. Difficult to compare from the photos, however, the bases do appear different, regardless of the R1 markings...

[glassobsessed]

I read about the odd Sklo Union mould ending up in Italy (especially Pecany's 'candlewax' vase) but I had no idea that any Italian versions of Riihimaki designs existed. I have handled what must have been one of those Italian Emma stoppered bottles and at the time it did not feel right, now I know why!

John

[Greg.]

John, here's another Riihimaki design that I just stumbled across produced in Italy (glasses are stamped made in Italy). Originally designed by Erkkitapio Siiroinen, 'Dice' bottle, I don't believe Riihimaki produced 'Dice' decanters, although its more than clear where the Italian ones drew their inspiration from..


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ERKKI-TAPIO-SIIROINEN-DICE-VASE-STOPPER-6GLASSES-/270807685577?pt=UK_Art_Glass&hash=item3f0d6559c9#ht_500wt_1156

I wonder how many other Italian copies of Riihimaki designs are around, I think that's five that I've come across....

[glassobsessed]

Thanks Greg, seen those about as well but never put two and two together before. Which are the others?

[scavo]

OK, just for clarification:

the stopper for mine is glass, only the seal is plastic.

mine is different to the one in the photo. The bubble pattern is different but looks the same as those I saw on the Finnish collector site.

The R1, R2 mystery could be mould numbers? But in any case looks completely different to the base of the UV version - but as I know mostly nothing about production - could be different moulds for different colours etc, etc.

Finland -v- Italy, Interesting. Makes perfect sense, selling of old patterns on is common in many industries. I have an Eiffel tower 'decanter' that I have seen on Ebay with various Brandy labels attached, but also believe to have been used for confections. How many moulds like this are now being used in glass production in China?

So what do people think about value? Are Finnish one going to more valuable than Italian? Would having an original make it more desirable? It would seem a possible story is that in the outset these were bottles that became popular decanters and then reemerged as bottles again? Perhaps explaining some with stoppers others possibly having corks and the corks being lost? I somehow imagine UV and Vodka going hand-in-hand.

[Greg.]

I'm pretty sure the origins of your Stella Polaris bottle and stopper both lie in Italy.

I was a little confused about the R1 and R2 marks initially. I have seen an R1 mark on a veturipullo bottle before, however, there weren't any other indications that this may have been Italian as it wouldn't and didn't have the plastic stopper. After seeing your Stella Polaris decanter with a plastic neck to the stopper and the R1 mark, I am inclined to think the veturipullo bottle I've seen is also Italian in origin.

The more I look into this it is clear that a number of Riihimaki designs were either copied or reproduced from Riihimaki moulds in Italy, so far I can see at least five Riihimaki designs reproduced in Italy, however, I strongly suspect there's a few more out there waiting. Copies seem to include:

Sun vases (at least 2 sizes, many with made in Italy mark to base)
Stella Polaris decanters (usually plastic neck stoppers and possible R1 or R2 mark to base)
Veturipullo (R1 mark to base)
Emma decanters (again plastic neck stoppers and possible base markings)
Dice bottle decanters (again plastic stoppers to decanter, matching glasses with made in Italy marks)

Don't normally discuss values in detail, however, the Finnish originals would be more valuable, having said that the emergence of copies never generally helps the value of originals. This said I have seen the odd Italian sun bottle sell, and it did it did sell for more than I would have thought. The sun bottles are iconic Riihimaki designs and the originals can be expensive, so I can understand why some people would purchase similar and cheaper Italian versions.

The corks are original to certain bottles I think I can recall Finnish advertising showing these somewhere, however, these days most have long been lost.

Interesting to know about the Italian versions, no doubt there will be a few more to add to the list over time.

[adam20]

I think you may be onto something about moulds being sent to Italy - this thread mentions sklo - well I have an Italian vase which is near enough exactly the same as the Sklo one - it is marked Fidenza Italy  - I know this manufacturer as I have a few Fidenza vases.

My Polaris vase matches one you post here Greg - the bubble pattern is the same and so is the base and neck.

Greg, add Feromena and Kaappikello to that list - I just got stung for £40 because I didn't look at designlasin closely enough - it was however sold under false pretences to all extents http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,44398.msg247458.html#msg247458


Thanks Adam

[Greg.]

Hi Adam, thanks for updating this thread, always useful for future reference. I was aware of discussions regarding the origins of Feromena designs, although, from memory wasn't completely sure if the copies were attributable to Italy or elsewhere...one thing is for sure is that there are a large number of Feromena which certainly didn't originate in Finland and it wouldn't surprise me if they also turned out to be Italian. That's the first time I've seen a copy similar to Kaappikello, certainly does look Italian in origin, the bottle neck almost exactly the same as the reproduced Italian 'Emma' decanters. There seems to be quite a few Riihimaki designs that have either been copied or the design changed very slightly, the vast majority do seem to have been reproduced/copied in Italy as either bottles or decanters, there is a marked difference in quality in comparison.

Your Polaris is very nice, especially in that colour. I hope you have some luck when contacting the seller about the other one.