Topic: Empoli "Verde" possibly prewar ???

[thomas]

While researching Empoli glass which I was not familiar with (the name was suggested in another listing of mine), I ran across images of "Verde" glass.  One vase was very similar to a vase of mine.  The listing said that after World War II, Empoli glassmakers began making cased glass in modern shapes much of which was exported to the US.  So traditional "Verde" gave way to cased glass.  I assume Verde glass was not discontinued entirely.  Do you think this vase is Empoli "Verde" and since the post-war emphasis was on cased glass and "Verde" production was probably limited, could you reasonably say that it's likely this vase is prewar?  Or is that assuming too much? 

[thomas]

Most of the information I have read on the town/comune of Empoli only mention glass manufacturing in passing.  They say Empoli was a center of glass manufacturing often overshadowed by Murano.  I found an earlier Message Board topic in which Ivo said that many of the glass manufacturers merged and moved to a neighboring valley.  Is glass still made in Empoli?  Is the glass made by the companies that moved to the neighboring valley marketed as "Empoli" glass?  Is "Verde" glass still made?  This glass is new to me.  Hope some knowledgeable Empoli collectors have some information for me.

[flying free]

Your vase looks to be beautifully made to me.  I think from what I recall others saying on here, that the turned over rim (can't remember what if any, the name is for it) would be done by an accomplished glassmaker - I think they are quite difficult to do well??? also the foot of your vase looks to be 'folded' at the base rim?
My first instinct (and that's only because my knowledge is soooo limited and especially on Empoli Verdi pieces) was that your piece looks to be more refined than the Empoli Verdi pieces I've noticed (which look to me at any rate, more 'earthy' as it were).  But on  this site (see link),  on the Empoli verde page,  if you go to the right hand side of the page third line down there is a tazza type piece/footed bowl, that seems to have the same knop as your vase and it appears to be a similar stem.  http://vmglasshouse.com/empoli-verde.htm
m

[Ivo]

Posting missing in cyberspace - mine.  

The thing about Verde is that the state the glass industry and the markets were in after the war, glass makers from Murano were unemployed and the bottle ovens in Empoli were hot - so Empoli employed Murano workers.  That is why Empoli verde is 90% bottle green and 10% bottle amber and have such characteristic features of traditional Murano glass from the twenties and thirties but without the colour.  The Verde period lasted until the early seventies or late sixties. There is supposed to be an exhibition catalogue from circa 1995 but I have not found it yet.

Empoli was the centre where (I believe ) a dozen factories operated, all of which merged into 3 conglomerates. These subsequently moved out to surrounding valleys: Colle Val d'Elsa, Poggibonsi etc.  The dominant one is still VE which is now the producer of ornamental bottles. CIVE does table glass, and STIVER pressed glass (replica and ice cream parlour)  - and these are all important industries.

[thomas]

Ivo - this is the url for the posting I found:  http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?topic=26056.0 
M - the images I refer to having run across in my first posting were on the site you listed (vmglasshouse).  If you click on "newsletters" and choose newsletter #6, in the 3rd photo down, you'll see the vase I thought looked like mine.  On the right in the rear.  My rim has a deeper fold, the vase area of mine is not squared off but the base is identical as is the color.  I never thought about it, but I guess the foot does look folded.  The bottom of the base is not smooth; there is a ridge just inside the edge as if the rim were folded under.  Are you saying this vase is too refined to be Empoli.  It looks like such a dead ringer to me.

[flying free]

Thomas, initially I did think that, but then  having gone onto that lovely site and seen that bowl, I was saying my instinct was wrong.
Ivo has waaaaay more experience in glass than I do.....  and has put a very good explanation in as to why many of the Empoli Verde pieces can be so refined.  And yes, your link to Newsletter 6 and  the piece therein, as well as the stem and colour of that pedestal bowl, appears to confirm that yours is Empoli Verde 
m