Topic: Have you seen a cane like this?

[Roger H]

In this weight there is a complex cane with 3 canes in the centre. I realize there are many configurations for these but have you seen one similar with three? Regards Roger.

[tropdevin]

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Could we have a top view please, in order to comment? (It wouldn't be missing a cane in the outer ring, by any chance? It looks like a weight sold recently, that I assumed was a 1979/1980 Strathearn experimental.)

Alan

[Roger H]

    Yes it is the one you saw sell recently with the missing cane and blurred photo. I believe I have a low kbyte photo somewhere, hang on. Its a little bit of a problem for me taking 5 meg for ebay and 0.3 meg for this site and then locating them on my computer. Regards Roger.

[KevinH]

The weight below is illustrated at top right of page 137 in Bob Hall's World Paperweights Millefiori & Lampwork book. I think this is the only example I have in my "Ysart-etc." collection that has a complex cane with a 3-cane central section [many 6-cane centrals being "alternate 3-and-3", but only this one 3-cane setup]. In the cane photo, the colourful 3-cane central is easily seen, as is the use of thin coloured rods as surrounds. Thin rods are also used in the structure of other complex canes in this weight.

The mix of a 3-cane group with simple outer canes is also seen in Roger's weight. In both of our weights, the canes are not all well set and in Roger's, some elements are clearly split or even missing altogether (probably due to "slippage" of side rods so they are unseen from the top view).

My weight has a central "JA" cane and I suspect that Roger's could be an unsigned example also made by Jack Allan. I do not know when my weight was made but it is most probably either Vasart Ltd. or early Perthshire Paperweights. The "very aerated" form and colour shade of the orange ground of Roger's weight is not like any of my orange-ground weights and this might add credence to a Vasart Ltd. weight as opposed to an Ysart Brothers period example.

However, Alan's thought of a late Strathearn experimental is interesting and in fact it could be possible, since such weights are known with Ysart (Salvador-type) canes and perhaps some could contain canes favoured by Jack Allan during his Vasart and Strathearn years.

[Roger H]

   Do you know, the more I look at this the less certain I know which way to go. The tint in the profile view is pretty well as it is,which seems an older than 50s glass. I do remember seeing a couple of strathearn experimental weights on the web about 6 months ago which denotes late 1970s I believe, and they looked similar to the outer canes of my weight.  The PY possibility seems to diminish eh.
      The orange ground is like a crunchie bar as it is peppered with air holes. I have found another photo with a base angle to it.    Roger.

[KevinH]

The PY possibility seems to diminish eh.

Who mentioned PY?

[Roger H]

    A little man in the back of my head (initially).   Anyway I found those 2 strathearn experimentals but there are no "3 canes", the complete appearance seems triangularly blocky(cane formation wise) and the colours are weak.  Thats not to say there were not others that are different to them.  THe crunchie ground is a bit of an oddity isnt it, wonder what it tastes like. Roger 

[Roger H]

     So which single  canes are not PY? Roger

[Roger H]

    OK, for my first surprise take a look at Alans website, at his for sale items reference 1865 and 01963. I see canes with 3 centre canes, what do you see? Roger over and out.

[KevinH]

Roger, good cane spotting in Alan's website.

Hmm, when I said earlier ...

... the only example I have in my "Ysart-etc." collection that has a complex cane with a 3-cane central section ...

... I had forgotten about some examples in a couple of Paul Ysart closepack weights for which I have not yet made a photographic extraction of each cane. [I'll claim getting older in my defence :spls: ]

The images below show macro focus versions of the canes in my weights that are identical to those Roger found. Also, to make the comparison easier for other readers, the links that follow are to Alan's pages that show the single enlarged version of each PY paperweight containing those canes:
http://www.pwts.co.uk/images-sale/1963w.jpg (green cane with 3-cane inner)
http://www.pwts.co.uk/images-sale/1865.jpg (complex cane with 3-cane inner)

So what does this mean? It shows that Paul Ysart definitely used a 3-cane motif as an inner section of at least two of his canes. However, the green cane is not a "complex cane" in the sense that it does not have multiple canes making up the outer layer. So it is not really a true comparison to the complex cane that is the subject of this thread.

The other cane is a good comparison and raises the question of whether Roger's "crunchy bar" orange-ground weight might have been made by Paul Ysart. I know what I think, but what do others say - and why?