Topic: Engraved or cut? antique? clear footed bowl with underplate

[claretjugcollector]

hmm .. i think both has been made by webb corbett  :pb:

[flying free]

Thank you Thomas :sun:

Now just to pin down the engraver and the dates - I get very confused between all the Webb's and their various names.
This is what I have found as a history on Webb Corbett
which I thought was very helpful
http://gorgeousglass.org.uk/webb-corbett/

and here a history on Stevens and Williams
http://gorgeousglass.org.uk/steven-williams/
m

[johnphilip]

I thought most if not all Webb Corbett was signed ? i have oodles of it and i suppose a prunus blossom or a daisy looks more or less  the same by most good engravers . :usd:

[flying free]

There is a piece on ebay at the moment, beautiful, looks very similar to mine in the engraving, attributed to Thomas Webb and looks to have the flowers and the foliage in a very similar way to mine.  And I may be splitting hairs here but I don't think the flowers don't look the same as mine - or is it just me?  
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Thomas-Webb-Crystal-Etched-Glass-4-x-piece-Epergne-Silver-plated-stand-/370582736145?pt=UK_Art_Glass&hash=item564873cd11


JP we cross posted...I'm sure that things can look very similar, and I'm sure I probably am splitting hairs but I would swear those flowers on the link are not done by the same hand as my flowers.

[Paul S.]

m - I also don't see the quality in the cutting of the flowers in your link, to be as good as your piece  -  and how 'sound' is the Thomas Webb provenance, I wonder.       Undoubtedly they made epergnes, but so did umpteen other factories.       Epergnes were items of table decoration that belonged to the late C19 - early C20 period  -  quite a bit earlier than the date of pieces of which we are discussing, so most unlikely to be the same hand.
If you wish, I can attach a picture of my finger bowl  -  but will not do so unless you request it  -  after all this is your thread.

[flying free]

Thomas when you said Webb Corbett I presume you meant post 1953 when the name was changed from Thomas Webb & Corbett ltd to Webb &Corbett Ltd ?  
Paul, I'm not entirely sure what we are discussing here date wise to be honest.  There are two possible attributions at the moment
a) Webb Corbett ?(which could mean post 1953 when Thomas Webb & Corbett Ltd name changed to Webb & Corbett Ltd, or it could mean Thomas Webb & Corbett Ltd prior to 1953 as items prior to 1953 were marked Webb Corbett, but my piece is completely unmarked and JP has mentioned that most Webb Corbett pieces were marked)
or
b) Stevens and Williams where I have found similar engraving and where my set has been mentioned as being very similar to John Orchard engraving.   John Orchard was engraving many years earlier than 1953. and I was thinking late 19th early 20th century for my set  so that epergne I linked to would be around a similar time period for what I was thinking.

However, I have to say, my instinct was that my set was an earlier piece, based on who would be making engraved footed dessert bowls with underplates in the `1950s (not something I relate to the mid 20th century but I am probably wrong)  and also that I had found very similar engraved foliage and flowers on items from around the late 19th early 20th.
m

[chopin-liszt]

M, the cutting on yours is far superior to the epergnes in the auction link.
I would trust the id of the ones in the link - that's Tracy Opie and she really does know her stuff.

[flying free]

Hi Sue  I would as well - I wasn't disputing the attribution in the link (see my post above yours where I was thinking both the epergnes and my piece come from the same period) - I was just thinking what you have said, which is that the cutting on mine seems to be by a different hand even though the design is very similar.
I'm still thinking my set could be engraved by John Orchard  basically.
Quibbled slightly by mention of it being a much later piece (possibly -  depending on whether Thomas meant post 1953 by his mention of Webb Corbett or whether he was just referring to the company as Webb Corbett which could mean Thomas Webb & Corbett ltd per se) and potentially by a completely different house (where myself and John had though Stevens and Williams)

....mmm, so no certainty there then
m

[claretjugcollector]

still not sure about the fingerbowl .. but i wouldn´t think its John Orchard .. because his best time was around 1880/1900 ...
so this one looks like John Orchard and that one is about 1890 ..

http://img.inkfrog.com/click_nelarge1.orig.php?image=tifjug_(7).JPG&username=fearthepug&aid=015956476

http://www.ebay.de/itm/160724974651?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2648

[flying free]

Thomas thank you for a great link    if that looks to be Orchard (the jug you linked to) then I would say my leaves and flowers are completely different.  The ones in the link have an extra 'circle' of dots around the centre dot in the flower on the link, the petals look different somehow, and the leaves look different, more detail on them or something, I'm not sure, but not 'the same'.

mmm, so...I have a set which (I think?) is:
- high quality engraving but so far not Orchard fairly definitely.  
- And it seems the consensus is it is not of the late 19th/early 20th century.  
- And possibly Webb Corbett but maybe not Thomas Webb & Corbett as a) it's different engraving to a very similar engraving epergne I linked to attributed to Thomas Webb &Corbett and b) also is not marked which most Webb Corbett is.
ok, knowing what it probably isn't, is important also  

Paul, I'm off to look for footed bowls with underplates c.1930's and yes please, do post a pic of your piece side on if poss as well - I'd like to see the shape of it and thank you.

thanks again everyone for your help so far - much appreciated.
m