Topic: Goldberg or Moser?Amethyst cologne Acid Cut Back gilded panel birds/flowers

[flying free]

you are absolutely right!  thank you so much 
m

[flying free]

Sorry I'm just going back to this Fachschule Steinschonau set and had a closer look at the pieces.  The perfume bottle is exactly the same design and cutting/facetting as my bottle, it's just in clear instead of amethyst and has the silhouette design instead of the acid cut back or oroplastic gilding around the middle.  The listing states

'Produced by K.u.K. Fachschule Steinschonau, Kamenicky Senov' - would that be the glass itself or the decoration? or both? or just the design of the piece and decoration?

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/8852923
m

[flying free]

 Veronika at Moser came back to me very quickly and with a lovely and detailed response.

She has shown the pictures to their historian and they have confirmed:

- This oroplastic design ('Phoenix' /'Asiatic Pheasant') has never been used by Moser
 (Mike I know you said this in the beginning  but I thought having seen that apparently signed Moser piece in Miller's 20th century glass it did need to be formally double checked)

- The design of the glass item does not correspond with Moser production

She has also confirmed that Moser pieces of this type are 'mostly signed'.

So...unless I am mistaken in thinking the oroplastic design is the same as mine, the amethyst oroplastic piece on page 55 of Miller's 20th Century Glass might be signed Moser but isn't a Moser piece.
 Please could someone double check that I have got my facts right and that the oroplastic gilded band is the same as the one on my perfume?  Many thanks

Lastly, have we now firmly precluded the possibility that the blank could have been supplied by Moser by their comment 'that the design of the glass item does not correspond with Moser production'.
m

[Mike M]

Fachschule Steinschonau (German name) or Kamenicky Senov (Czech name) as it should be known - is in fact a school for teaching enamelling, cutting and chandelier making, a very very fine one -  and under threat of closure I might add.

So they would never have made the glass they bought in locally made blanks. However, as an aside, I have often wondered, but have no proof, if some of the many designs that were originated by Kamenicky Senov students, where then taken up by the local Haida glass houses, possibly even employing the student that originated them.

cheers

M

[Mike M]

Sorry I meant to add

The black illustrations are based on Karl Wilhelm Diffenbach, and in Deb Truitt's books she points out that one of the famous heads of Kamenicky Senov -I forget which - encouraged his students to copy these images onto glass.

cheers

M

[flying free]

Thanks Mike.
There is a mention in Truitt's of a connection between Goldberg and NOvy Bor and although I couldn't find a similar mention regarding Kamenicky Senov I guess it doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Also, the liveauctioneer link says those pieces were not signed, so there is nothing definite that they originated at Kamenicky Senov so far.
m

[Mike M]

OK this get even more complicated - as looking through a book today
I spotted one of the lidless pots in the live auction attributed to 'Fachschule Steinschonau' set -you listed and linked to above.

Only this identical pot with another similar pot was identified as:

Alexander Pfohl 1920 for Josephinenhutte  -illustrating figures from Arnold Busch tales. -The book was  Josephine glassworks 1900-1950 Stefania Zelasko. The pieces are at Passau. Now books can be wrong, but I think auction houses have a less reliable track record.

To be fair Josephine and Steinschonau are very close -but in different countries -in fact I think Pfohl may have lived in Steinschonau/Kamenicky Senov

cheers

M

[flying free]

So...just so I can keep my head straight, based on the book you quote the glass was produced at Josephinenhutte and the decoration was done by Alexander Pfohl, on those pieces on my link to the Liveauctioneer pieces?
If so, the link to my perfume is that it is the same shape as those on that set, therefore the glass  could have been produced at Josephinenhutte.  The decoration of my piece is though only a tenuous link to Pfohl, as the blank could have been bought in by another decorating house?
Thanks so much for persevering with this 
m

[Mike M]

Hi

I think it just proves an almost dead-end; Josephine's production is well (and beautifully) documented by Stefania and there is no oroplastic work there. Odd really as they tried their hand at almost everything else.

But they were one of the great blank makers and made a lot of glass in dark purples, blues, reds and green etc.

So we go back to 'an unknown maker' probably in the central norther bohemia area, near Haida etc, just possibly using a Josephine blank but even that's a tenous link!

sorry!

M   

[flying free]

I'm tenacious if nothing else though  I'll keep looking
m