Topic: Rare? matt Davidson blue cloud bowl,rare block with rd no on?1885 epergne Rd no

[flying free]

I need some help please.
This is not my collecting thing, but I thought it was very unusual when I saw it. 
Either it's a rare piece of Davidson dating to 1933 or it's something else?

I think the bowl/vase is a 6" 283 but measures 5 3/4".  The cloud  is blue with purple streaks - gorgeous colour - I will try and take some better pictures as the blue is stunning.  It is completely matt inside and out - I think the combination of the blue and the all matt, if it's Davidson, makes it a fairly rare piece.

The block is blue cloud glass with purple swirls and all matt.
The block has an rd number on it which I believe is 783 ----- , not a number on the registered Davidson design numbers that I can find and dates to 1933, but the mould has obliterated parts of the number.  It's also a shape that I cannot find either.
Again all matt and I suppose must be rare.

The inserted metal epergne also has an Pat App no on it of 26246 or 26245 which dates I think to 1885 so was inserted and riveted into the centre of the block as a marriage.

Any help very much appreciated. 
many thanks
m

[David E]

Best I can offer is that a matt outside is quite uncommon, and blue is quite collectable. How about that for an impartial, non-committal response! 

[flying free]

 
I try hard to be impartial...but you know how it is 
I'm going to add some better pictures of the colour as it's glorious.  And try and get a clearer picture of the rd number on the block.  I love that someone has added the epergne into the middle and that dates to 1885. 
m

[David E]

I should have mentioned Chris' site, of course: www.cloudglass.com who does pop in often to give advice. The site is pretty much complete for identification purposes though. The flower support with central epergne holder (if that's standard) is certainly a little odd I think. But I think the 'date' is 1910, which signifies it derives from the 1910 suite:
http://www.cloudglass.com/S1910.htm

Cloud glass collectors also tend to look for pieces where the 'cloud' of colours is evenly distributed, but not where the cloud is too thin or far too dark. Personally I like the ones where it's gone a little wrong, where the base is sometimes almost clear, or the cloud is very thick.

[flying free]

thanks David
I had scoured the site looking for clues to any of it but even on the 1910 there was no reference to this flower block or the rd number.  I'd not recognised that the 1910 might be a completely separate id at the end of the rd number but there were no numbers that Davidson registered that vaguely match the start of the rd number on the block, that I can find ?  I scoured the site as I say and couldn't find the block shape anywhere.
It gets better though...the epergne is solid silver I think   it is a marriage I'm sure as the pat no on that dates to 1885 but the block has a large hole as the centre which is what the flute holder sits in and is riveted at the bottom where the hole emerges.

I'll take some better pictures of the glass colour and cloud once my battery is charged. It was failing as I took those couple of shots so it's not a good representation.
m

[Lustrousstone]

It's a standard 6-in. 283 with  No. 3 flower block. The Stewarts say on the website

On the base of the frog can be found the size, the words 'Made in England' and the phrase 'Patent 7830/1910' all in raised letters.

The Blue Cloud is a standard colour, though as David says all matte is less common. Blue Cloud was made from 1925 to 1934

[David E]

Yes, blue cloud is a standard colour, but it is less common than amber, purple or green hence quite collectable.

New camera? You need a Panasonic Lumix 

[flying free]

I can't find this shape though? or one like mine that just has one row of large holes with a central hole.  It doesn't look like any of the blocks in the pictures 
There is a small one here in the link and it's not the same shape as mine. 
http://www.cloudglass.com/Frogs.htm

But if it is some form of the 3 it must be the 3H as:
Source Cloudglass site -quote
'Davidson also made the dome in two styles, Pattern no 3H which had the holes pierced through the base and no 3 which was not pierced.
Mine has the holes pierced through the base.
No new camera needed but need to keep the batteries charged properly.
m

[Lustrousstone]

There may have been hole variations; the patent is only the method of manufacture. The basic shape is standard though.

[flying free]

ok, thanks I'll keep looking for a match to the shape.
But I have a query over it as I've not found another in that shape so far.  And now I am wondering if the epergne holder is a marriage or not.

The marks are very worn on it.  However the lion outline shape of the cartouche matches marks for 1916-1933. 
The mark next to it is completely worn off but the cartouche outline shape is there and that may have been for the date letter which  matches the shapes used for 1896-1933 London it seems. Need to check other cities.
So it is possible the 'pat applied for' no was first registered in 1885, however this actual piece may date to a period from 1916-1933 i.e. possibly during the time the bowl was made but they still put on the patent no app for mark.

Rather unfortunately the makers mark has the first letter worn almost completely away although the second letter E and the Ltd mark are still there very clearly.  I'll do some digging and come back if I find a maker

Edited to add later:  The second cartouche shape could be either the date letter for London 1916-1933 or the cartouche for the leopard mark for London which was for the same period.
The shape of it does not match date marks for any other city dates for 1885 or for any other period that would match post 1885 as far as I can see.
Presumably one or other of the marks has worn away as there should be a lion mark, a city mark and a date mark as well as the makers mark.  Or it's an import made to look like a silver mark.  I can't find the makers mark at the moment.
Thanks for all your help both
m