Topic: Q: Press glass manufacturers used to sell their molds?

[hugosanti]

Hi everyone!
I have a question for those who know about pressedglass history:
I live in Argentina and I have some vases that I find in catalogs as:
Vase Libochovice # 1383
Vase Inwald # 11102
"Corn Vase" LUXVAL VSL (I dont have it but I see it around here all the time)

In all cases the vases were made in Argentina.
The first one said at the bottom "INDUSTRIA AREGENTINA"
The other two has the "CRISTALUX" logo (Who was an argentinian glassmaker)

So: How could it be? European pressed glass manufacturers used to sell their molds? are those vases copies or imitations?
Thanks in advance!
Hugo

[David E]

Or, they were made under license in Argentinia (but I don't think so)?

However, as there's a definite Czech influence here, perhaps it would be better for a mod to move this to that section.

[Anne Tique]

Interesting thread as i have been asking myself the same questions...for different makes and models.

I have an image in a book of your first square vase with a moulded signature 'SPIP Tchecoslovaquie'. Sofar i've found out that it used to be a parisian importer/wholeseller, who used to have their own vases made overthere. It is interesting to see it under a different mark.

The Luxval 'Maïs' is a new one to me, not the model of course but to see it under a different brand name. As far as i have been told, all the moulds were destroyed at some point, at the end of the Luxval production. I haven't come across a known Luxval model under a different name, except for 'made in Belgium'

I guess that certain, more popular models in general were sold/leased or perhaps commissioned. A good example is the wellknown 'Cornet' vase with tulips as decoration, that can be found as Inwald, Barolac, Markhbeinn and even signed 'Belge' and 'Fait en Belgique', and it is especially the last two marks that puzzle me.

I have come across the Atlas series also under the belgian marks, as some other Walther and Hermanova models, but i can't identify or find an importer.
The well known 'Luxor' vase is found in several catalogues, and once again, with both belgian marks on it.

'Fait en Belgique' and 'Belge' is often attributed to Manage and Scailmont but recently i was told about a tiny factory called 'Fauguez', situated in Belgium, but long gone now.

All of this makes me believe that factories used to either work together, trade or copy. The wholesellers seemed to have jumped on the bandwagon by distributing the same models under their own brand, which makes things even more complicated, because i then ask myself, who did the original model belong to? Perhaps with Argentina this is the case as well. A lot of europeans moved to south america during and after the war, so i can imagine, a lot of people in the glass trade did so too, so maybe there's a link there. The ''Moser' story for example, is proof of that, when they moved to the States in 1940-1941 to flee the german regime.  In Argentina the factory Cristalerias Papini used the full words INDUSTRIA ARGENTINA moulded on several of their Carnival Glass patterns.

I guess that copyright/patent was less strong in those days, and therefor popular items were easily reproduced, but this is all food for thought, well..for me it is.

Any thoughts from anybody?

[Glen]

I've explored a host of aspects with regard to this fascinating topic (i.e. plagiarism etc.) Here are a couple of articles on the theme of pattern similarities / plagiarism and so on. I hope you might find our theories and ideas of interest.

http://www.thistlewoods.net/Garland-and-Bows.html

http://www.thistlewoods.net/Marinha-Grande.html

Glen

[Ohio]

"I guess that copyright/patent was less strong in those days, and therefor popular items were easily reproduced".

Personally I believe you answered the question. I know we (the U.S.) copied more than a few European designs/patterns, etc. primarily because copyright enforcement applied to U.S. companies here in the U.S. but obviously that type of enforcement did not exist or amount to anything other than in our own country & as far as countries outside the continental U.S. was concerned it was somewhat of an open season. Of course at least here in the U.S. if a glass company went out of business the molds were always sold off to the highest bidder so who knew who may have ended up with them & that practice continues today although frankly its a moot point over here as 95% of our glass companies since the early 1900s were long gone by 1970 & that  5% of what little that remained are gone now. I believe Beaumont, L.E. Smith, Indiana, Lancaster & Fenton were the last decent sized companies standing in the 2000s & now they are gone.

[Anne Tique]

Interesting theories, thank you Ohio and  Glen for the links, sort of confirms my thoughts.

I don't want to hijack Hugo's thread but i do believe that it is all very interesting to look into, as i think, that it isn't only just reproducing, copying...whatever you want to call it.

I have never given it a lot of thought, maybe it's old news for some of you, but i am coming across links between Hoffmann, Schlevogt, Inwald and Markhbeinn, so i do think companies did work together, and perhaps exchanged ideas as well. Schlevogt didn't marry Hoffmann's daughter just because she was a pretty girl and Schlevogt jr, Henri opened up a shop in the same street as where Markhbeinn used to have his business, rue du Paradis, Val d'Andelle....who in his time used to import in France for his father Kurt and Inwald...

Anyway, i'll continue looking as all of this history of pre-war Europe just makes me look differently at an object, whatever it is...

[Glen]

Markhbeinn was a glass seller (a wholesaler, really) - they marketed Inwald's glass. That's the fundamental link between those two. You probably know that already, but I thought I'd mention it, just in case you didn't.

Marriage between "glass families" was not unusual. For instance, the Classic Carnival makers, the Imperial Glass Company and the Fenton Company (and by extension, also the Millersburg Company, because that was founded by a Fenton) were joined by marriage.  In June 1907, Frank Fenton married Lilian Mae Muhleman, the niece of Edward Muhleman who had founded the Imperial Glass Company. Their eldest son was then christened Frank Muhleman Fenton.

Glen

[Anne Tique]

I knew about the Inwald connection, but didn't about the Schlevogt.....

The american side is all new to me really, but just as interesting...marriages not just in the glass industry, were of course often arranged due to status, business, position etc, so that all makes sense.

[Fuhrman Glass]

Molds have always been moved between companies a lot, at least here in the US. Many times they followed the glassworkers that could produce them. Even though most think press molds can be easily done from one company to another, that is not always the case. I personally have owned many molds and still have a few. I have sold off a lot of them. and some of the ones I've had have come from companies that were not the original owners of them. Lots of items were produced by other companies and then marketed under others names just as it is done now.
I've also seen molds transferred from companies here in the US to companies in Mexico, China, Taiwan, South America, and eastern Europe. I've also known some unscrupulous people who 35 years ago just blatantly copied some older items and had new molds made and the items reproduced. Several of the molds I bought at the L.G. Wright auction were from older companies such as Dugan and Wright had 1000's of molds and they never made any glass at all. They had it all done by other companies and moved the molds around. I've also seen the same molds made in multiples by one company and I'm sure that over the years many of those were sold off and separated. I know of some friends that owned a lot of the Consolidated molds and I know they were produced by their factory as well as several others. They were last seen at Fenton. Many of the molds had inserts that could be interchanged that signified what company produced them , so the same piece may have several different names on it depending upon when and where it was made. This was not just restricted to the glass industry. . The metal lamp and giftwares parts industry was also like this.

[Anne Tique]

Thank you for the info and your time to explain all of this Fuhrman, if it has happened in the States, i can't see why it shouldn't have happened in Europe, but i would have expected more of an 'each to their own' attitude.

I've read a while ago that moulds were difficult and expensive to make, so that makes sense. I very much like the works of Pierre d'Avesn and he followed his moulds all the way to Cristal d'Arques!

About the copies of the older moulds, i guess it is no news to you that this is still done today, i guess we've all seen the Gallé-Tip vases  and other big names....