Topic: Stevens & Williams 1889 Moresque?

[Bernard C]

Brian — Your reference to the Webb piece with amber threading got me thinking, and left me unsure about the colour of the threading on my tazza.   It could be amber or golden-amber threading, with the green colour that I could certainly see at a very specific angle the result of refraction through the distorted threads.

Since then, fourteen months ago, no progress, until two days ago, Bank Holiday Monday, August 27, 2007, at the Woking Art Deco & Nouveau Fair.   I had the tazza on display, and, during a quiet spell (which you never really get at the glass fairs), Mervyn Gulliver checked over my stand and read my information ticket on the tazza with some interest.   He then took me back to his stand and showed me the factory pattern book entry for it.    Not a close match, but an exact one, with descriptive text and a date.

The succinct description reads: "Ruby body, diamond moulded, amber threads over."   Pattern number 3701, dated July 12 1881, and made in several sizes.

Now for the really interesting part.   Not Stevens & Williams, Richardson, Webb, or Boulton & Mills, but Stuart.

According to Gulliver, Victorian Decorative Glass, 1881 is also the year when Frederick Stuart left the partnership of Stuart & Mills at the Albert Glassworks, Wordsley, and set up on his own, acquiring the lease of the Red House Glassworks from Philip Pargeter, becoming Stuart & Sons in 1885.   So this tazza must be one of the earliest independent designs of Frederick Stuart.

My sincere thanks to all who contributed.

Bernard C. 

[flying free]

Bernard the pictures have disappeared on this thread and I wondered if you still had a photograph of your tazza please?
thank you
m

[Bernard C]

M — yes, somewhere.   I will dig them out and put them back.

Bernard C. 

[Frank]

M — yes, somewhere.   I will dig them out and put them back.

 

[flying free]

Not to throw the topic off kilter - but I wonder if this pattern in this link is the pattern Bernard was referring to on his Tazza where pictures have now disappeared?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ANTIQUE-STEVENS-WILLIAMS-THREADED-ART-GLASS-Compote-W-RASPBERRY-PRUNT-PONTIL/373079920497?hash=item56dd4bcf71:g:sCQAAOSwvqde4TYJ

If it is the same,then this might be the pattern Bernard had identified by Mervyn Gulliver as by Stuart.

[flying free]

I think if my memory serves me correctly, that Bernard's tazza which he had had identified as Stuart was a tazza version of these plates which are in the Met Museum.  Unfortunately the Met Museum has them id'd as 'possibly Boston and Sandwich'

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/6437?searchField=All&sortBy=Relevance&ft=New+England+Glass+Company&offset=660&rpp=20&pos=662

They have a number of plates and also this tazza which I think might be the same decor:

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/8255?searchField=All&sortBy=Relevance&ft=New+England+Glass+Company&offset=660&rpp=20&pos=675

Also Cyril shows a picture in his book on page 64 or item 81 where he shows the base version of a bowl which I also think might be in this same pattern.  It has a raspberry prunt over the pontil mark and three curled shell feet.

Open to correction and of course Bernard's photos are not on here any more but that's what I remember.

SEe also this link on our GMB for further versions and information

https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,60786.msg342759.html#msg342759

[flying free]

more examples in the met in a different shape - a set of finger bowls:

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/3623?searchField=All&sortBy=Relevance&ft=New+England+Glass+Company&offset=680&rpp=20&pos=687

[flying free]

Some additional information on the linked thread I gave above.

Bernard has given pattern numbers and an ID of Stuart for his tazza having had the piece with him at a Fair whilst looking at the Stuart pattern books and discussing with Mervyn Gulliver.

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,5410.msg99233.html#msg99233





The additional information for discussion is that I have just seen on a recent National Glass Fairs page  Dilwyn Hier has identified a plate as being from Thomas Webb and gives a pattern number and description.  I think the plate is the same design as these items?:

https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,60786.msg342759.html#msg342759



National Glass Fairs information:

http://www.glassfairs.co.uk/Images/News/diamond_threaded-(2).jpg

It shows a large bowl with a fluted edge in what appears to be this decor?  Is it the same as these on the thread?
The information on the Nat Glass page says, if the item shown is the same decor as these, that they are by Thomas Webb:

'Threaded Air-trap
Frequently referred to as "Jewel" ware, this type of glass is often incorrectly attributed to Stevens & Williams. Research by Dilwyn Hier has busted this myth by identifying the designs from the Thomas Webb & Sons pattern books.

The pattern number is 13655, dated 1881/2, which describes a threaded ware: "Body, flint, slightly cased in ruby, gold threads & large diamond mould.". The Webb pattern is reproduced on the website.'

Link to National Glass Fairs page here (you may need to scroll down to see the item)
http://www.glassfairs.co.uk/news.html#stourbridge

[Paul S.]

coming to this one many years late, it looks obvious that poor old Bernard's demise occurred before he could replace his original picture of what he believed may have been S. & W. Moresque, and in view of the lack of Bernard's picture then this thread may now be defunct.

I hadn't contributed to the thread, so brain likely not au fait with all that has been said, but recall we've spoken about Moresque previously, somewhere, and thought I'd posted a reproduction of the original factory drawing - courtesy of TNA.
However, I hadn't realized that in fact S. & W. had created two separate, but fairly similar, designs for this decorative feature  -  137288 dated 04.11.1889, and a later allocation 612352 dated 31.12.1912 ......  both are shown in Gulliver, and both have typical close contoured lines showing a Moorish looking pattern.      Why two separate Registrations I've no idea, and why over twenty years apart is also a mystery.

So, just for the record - though almost all of the contributors to this thread have departed the GMB - attached is a reproduction of the earlier of the two Registrations.      Unfortunately I don't have a picture of the later design, yet, but if you have Gulliver they appear on pp. 266 and 268.

[flying free]

Thank you Paul.
That's helpful to see a representation of the S&W Moresque because as far as I recall and can see from my notes, that is definitely not the design Bernard was talking about.

m