Topic: Stevens & Williams 1889 Moresque?

[BSevern]

Well this should be acceptable then - pilfered straight from my own curio cabinet:
Mod: Link removed as content changed to inappropriate site
Thanks for the lecture Bernard, I've reduced the image size (it's a whopping 14Kb) and will try not to post large file sizes in the future.  But honestly why are you still using 640X480, running on an old laptop or something?   I haven't run that low of resolution on a desktop for almost 20 years.  :?

Brian

[BSevern]

Er .... would you say this was an example of 'box-pleated rims'?  http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-1588  
And if so, is this likely to be by S&W  :shock:

Hi Leni,

This is a form of box pleating, but I don't believe it to be S&W.   It could well be Bohemian (they copied the S&W mechanized rim crimping design).

Brian

[Bernard C]

Brian — thanks, that's exactly what I thought you meant.

Now, about your huge inline image.   Why?

I'm trapped on a 640x480 screen, so now I have to scroll each way to read every line.   I hate to think what it is like for those who are visually impaired and have to magnify their text.   To print this topic, I now have to clear out my cache of downloaded images and go off-line.    If you must include an image inline, please keep to an absolute maximum of 320 pixels wide.   200x150 would have been fine, I've just tried it.   And it has an optimised file size of less than 4Kb.   Also with a file size of nearly 50Kb, every eleven people who access this topic, whether or not they look at your image, will knock 1Mb off the GMB bandwidth allowance (inline images get counted twice, once on the way in and once on the way out), thus hastening the day when the ISP cuts us off.

So please, Brian, how about just a link, which we can choose to access, to a nice modest 4Kb 200x150?

Bernard C.  

[Bernard C]

... Thanks for the lecture Bernard, I've reduced the image size (it's a whopping 14Kb) and will try not to post large file sizes in the future. ...

Brian — Thanks for the transformation.   It wasn't a lecture, I was being well-mannered and entirely reasonable!   Come to think of it my OH keeps telling me I get more like a Grumpy Old Man by the day.   I can't think what she means!  :lol: 

... But honestly why are you still using 640X480, running on an old laptop or something? ...

A replacement reconditioned monitor that I can't seem to tease out of its default 640x480 mode.   Before this I was running on a much larger screen size, switching into 640x480 mode when systems testing web pages such as eBay listings.   Moral: never believe a salesman when you are told that it is easy to install, as you just have to swap them over.

Back to topic, did you notice the tazza's pattern count, which I added to my gallery?   It's 14, only the second time I have found a pattern count on a blown mould which is not a factor of 360, and the first which is a multiple of 7.

Bernard C. 

[BSevern]

...did you notice the tazza's pattern count, which I added to my gallery?   It's 14, only the second time I have found a pattern count on a blown mould which is not a factor of 360, and the first which is a multiple of 7.

Bernard C.  

That's an interesting observation.

I checked the pieces I have:

*squatty rose colored rose bowl - it also has the pattern count of 14
*small root beer colored round posy vase with applied crystal hot worked feet that go up the side of the vase - also with a pattern count of 14
*root beer colored finger bowl and underplate - the pattern is very light in the bowl, I couldn't see it well enough to count it.  The underplate doesn't appear to have a pattern at all, although it matches the finger bowl.

Both the rose bowl and the posy vase have the pattern pretty well defined, and dare I say it appears to be an air trap design similar to what we call mother of pearl in the states.  The finger bowl appears to be more of a diamond quilt optic pattern molded into the glass, without the airtrap treatment.

Brian

[Dilwyn Hier]

Bernard,

For the benefit of the contributors to the message board, let me repeat the information I gave you on the 7th May, and provide you with the supporting research information.

The piece you have is not Stevens and Williams “Moresque”. Moresque was a moulded design of irregular lines similar to the “Moire” design in silk fabrics. This moulded pattern was first produced by Thomas Webb & Sons and registered under the number 58375 on 8th October 1886. It was described as “Diaper of irregular lines forming watery or wavy pattern on the surface of glass”. S&W copied this moulded pattern in 1889 where they used it as a moulded background on large flint (crystal) vases that were covered with gilt decoration by Pierre Erard. In the same year items appear in the pattern book showing this moulded design covered in threading. In 1891 an item with puce threading is shown and then in 1893 various vases are found with this technique and the name “Mooresque” (note the spelling). You can view an image of the relevant pattern book by visiting http://www.glassfairs.co.uk/mooresque.htm. It then disappears from the pattern books until 1912 where it is found on preserve dishes and is described as a “Moresque” mould; once again it is in combination with gilding (not Erard) or threading. In 1925 it appears for the last time in combination with coloured threading and various other moulded designs such as “Festoon”, “Scale”, “Hammered” and “Wavy”. Colours used were “Rose body, green threads”, “Rose body citron threads” etc. Images from the pattern books are featured at the above URL.

The design that you have was described by Manley as S&W “Jewel Ware”. Although “Jewel Ware” is a name given to a design by S&W it is of something completely different. The diamond mould in connection with threading as use on your piece is not shown at all in the S&W pattern book. This makes Richardson the favourite for the manufacturer of your piece with Thomas Webb as a possible outsider. Manley does illustrate a piece of “Moresque” as item 291; a piece now in my collection and probable coming from the early 20th Century period.

The item you have is indeed very attractive and was very popular judging by the frequency that I see it at our Glass Fair. I have a strawberry set comprising a comport shaped stand with six dished side plates. The work is very fine and is consistent with that of the late 19th Century rather than early 20th Century.

Finally just to comment on the much finer example of S&W work contributed by Brian.

This is a “Fingercup in Filigree” and appears in 1887 under the pattern number 12916. It is often referred to as Latticino but is actually listed as Filigree and was advertised under this name in the Pottery Gazette of 1887. Brian’s example is in the more unusual blue colour (they produced it in 5 colours) and uses the Northwood 1884 patented crimped top. Unusually the shape of this crimp is not given in the pattern book until 1925 where it reappears and is described as a “Key Crimp”.

See you at the Glass Fair on 21st May, Heritage Motor Centre, Gaydon; J12 of M40 - http://www.glassfairs.co.uk

[BSevern]

Hi Dilwyn,

Thanks for your post.  

Just to be clear, I was only illustrating what we commonly refer to in the states as a S&W box-pleated rim, not “Moresque” or such, and was aware that the piece is a S&W Latticino/Filigree  fingerbowl.  I am working on an article on S&W threaded glass, would you happen to have a copy of the 1887 Pottery Gazette showing the Filigree advertisement that I could see or use for the article?

You seem to have access to the S&W catalogs.  Are these accessible somewhere for everyone to view?  

Also the link you posted referencing the “Mooresque” in the S&W pattern books, is that part of a larger article?

Thanks,
Brian

[Dilwyn Hier]

Brian,

I understood that your fingercup was used to illustrate the box-pleated rim; but having a Rose coloured version myself I know just how beautiful the work is and wanted to share the research on it.

I have posted a copy of the Pottery Gazette advertisement (http://www.glassfairs.co.uk/fingercup.htm), but you will see it is only text and it states that no illustrated catalogue is available. A much larger image could be sent via email.

I am glad that you are writing an article on threaded glass, so if I can help in any way please ask.

The S&W pattern books are available on micro-fiche in the Dudley Archives and at Corning Museum of Glass. The original books are with Broadfield House Glass Museum. I have over the years spent many hours studying them and have recorded a significant number of pages digitally. In doing so I have had to sign to say that they are for my own personal use and therefore have not made the set available online. If you have a picture of any S&W piece that you want me to look up, let me know and I will see what I can do.

The information I have posted is not part of any article, yet.

I have also posted pictures of the “Manley” Moresque bowl and my threaded, diamond mould comport/tazza (http://www.glassfairs.co.uk/mooresque.htm); this also has the 14 pattern count. In addition I have checked two Diamond satin air trap (Mother of Pearl) vases that I have positively identified as Thomas Webb & Sons and they have a pattern count of 16.

By the way the intent of threading over a moulded design was to trap air, which adds to the colour variations and sparkle of the pieces. It can be seen clearly in the Moresque bowl illustrated.

[BSevern]

Hi Dilwyn,

Thank you for posting the copy of the Pottery Gazette advert.  It's very interesting as it brings up a few designs I've never seen (that I know of) such has Sea-shell glass, Caleri Glass, Rustic Glassware, Vandyke, and The "Incrusted" Art Glass Ware.  Very interesting indeed.

I'm glad to hear that the blue colored Filigree fingercup is a rare one.  An interesting story, a lady had a set of four of these for sale some time back.  She had no idea what they were, but wanted about $800 for the set.  I went in on them with a friend and my Mom, getting two for myself  Their very nice, and rarely seen.  The cameo glass Filigree pieces I've only seen in the Charles Hajdamach British Glass book.

For my online article I'm planning to use examples from my collection of Jeweled Glass (Rd #55693, we also call it zipper glass in the U.S.), Tapestry Glass, Osiris Glass, Northwood Pull-up, Filigree/Latticino Glass, and some of their threaded mother-of-pearl air trap zipper pieces.  If you have anything from the Stevens & Williams catalogs on these types of glass that you can share, I'd love to see it.

I looked through the Corning Museum's online Library index, and it appears that they have the Stevens & Williams catalogs lumped together.  For instance:  Description books, no. 21-24. Ware 23415-28001,  Stevens & Williams Brierley Hill Glass Works Staffordshire, England 1897.  I am checking to see if they will allow an inter-library loan of the microfiche.  It would be fantastic, and what an excellent resource if someone would publish these catalogs.  I wonder why it hasn't been done?

Also I see that you're working on a book on Webb Burmese.  I believe I have one of the Webb Burmese color variants (lilac maybe?).  I have about 30 examples of Webb Burmese, and this piece is colored like no other I've ever seen.   I also have a decorated rose bowl in what we would call unfired Burmese (white).  I can get some pictures this weekend if you'd be interested in seeing them.


Thanks,
Brian

[Sklounion]

Brian wrote:

 

what an excellent resource if someone would publish these catalogs. I wonder why it hasn't been done?

Usually the reason for this is the costs involved, and the limited market.

Whilst academics, libraries and some dealers may be prepared to invest in that kind of knowledge, the necessarily high shelf price, which reflects the cost of production, is sufficient to deter less well-off collectors. No publisher likes remainders.

Little demand, no supply.

Regards,

Le Casson