Topic: Mystery Goblet

[agincourt17]

Rob, the GMB has discussed this kind of thing with anomolous or 'nonsensical' lozenges in the past (especially in relation to early Henry Greener pieces) at
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,50579.msg286077.html#msg286077

Do your two goblets with the same lozenge but different designs have similar internal bowl shapes?  If so, two quotes from that discussion may well apply to your goblets:

…perhaps there only was one plunger which was used for both the [items].  Maybe [the manufacturer] wasn't concerned about the registry mark being on it.  There is a similar case with the Marquis of Lorne butter dish which has a registry mark which corresponds to a different design.  The butter dishes are pretty well the same shape so the same plunger worked for both.  Why buy two when one will do!

and

As you say, Sid, the ‘wayward’ lozenge on the plungers was probably of little or no concern to Greener compared to economic realities, so quite likely a ‘deliberate error’ producing this anomaly.

Also, the John Derbyshire goblets from RDs 274962 and 274963 have been discussed at
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,53689.msg304690.html#msg304690
complete with Paul’s pix from the design representations at Kew. The same topic also discusses Raymond Slack’s probable misidentification of JD’s goblet pattern 256.

I think the board has also discussed ‘nonsensical’ lozenge marks (where the visible alphanumeric identifiers at the interior angles of the lozenge just don’t seem to conform to any of the ‘correct’ design registry systems) but I can’t seem to locate the precise topics at the moment.

Fred.

[nosloz]

Fred,

Re Internal shape alike?, dead simple one word answer - NO!

The one acknowledged to be the correct one, 198277 as per Jenny's picture/drawing,  is much steeper, more sort of cone-shaped, than a bowl shape, like than the mystery one.

I only concluded my 198277 was that because it matches the drawing perfectly, the lozenge is not distinct, but the one I have seen today matching the mystery one has a crystal clear lozenge mark.

I am getting more confused!!!

Nosloz