Topic: English Drinking Glasses?

[Paul S.]

Some little way into this link you should find the contact details for Tim Mills.             The author's book is mainly concerned with decorated glasses, rather than the lesser quality inn or pub pieces, about which, of course, far less can be said.

Just in case there's any misunderstanding, Tim Mills does comment, with regard to these undecorated public house examples  (more likely to be made of soda glass rather than having a lead content) that...........such pieces "probably imported from the Continent for the pub trade"   -  so we have to be a little careful before being too dogmatic about their origins.        ...........     http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,54261.msg307592.html#msg307592

[Ivo]

Similar glasses were manufactured in great quantities from abt. 1860 onward by the glassworks in Arques. You can find a few on each and every market in France. Not as cheap as they used to be - but very desirable. It is rare to get a set of six or seven.  There is a greyish hue to these - but you need to handle them to be sure of the provenance.  The number of models is mind blowing. Every time you think you have a match you'll find another model @ a sight variation.

[Paul S.]

I've noticed that on my recent trips to the Ardingly Antiques Fair (in west Sussex U.K.), there seems to be an increasing amount of French made drinking glasses, so this might be a good place to find those of which Ivo speaks.            Do you have a picture you can post Ivo, or is the difference not really apparent of the screen?

[bOBA]

Thank you everyone. I have really enjoyed this thread and appreciate the mixture of viewpoints. I suppose we are lucky to have so many of these survive and be appreciated as great glass. I hope to acquire a copy of Mills and learn a bit more about English drinking glasses. The diversity of shapes suggests local production teams for almost every town or city and that combined with import-export too! What a tricky research area.... but I can imagine it being an enduring and interesting one, with so many types to see and no pattern limit as such.

I have used the glasses for drinks and they are great. The balloon shaped one did appear to turn a single measure of Calvados into appearing like a quadruple due to the way the solid glass perfectly magnified it though.... otherwise very pleasant. I see no problem using a few slightly mismatched for a meal with friends...... certainly near identical would seem to be the nearest match that could be achieved! Finding eight the same, sounds like a miracle! 

cheers all!


Robert (bOBA)

[KevinH]

So is the consensus that these are English (but similar made elsewhere)? Or not?

[bOBA]

I am left with the impression, very likely English, though evidently similar produced in France and elsewhere and were historically imported (exported?) too ...... the extreme variety of types of these, produced over a long time, in several locations, makes certainty difficult in most cases it seems! We have to buy the Mills volume to find out more maybe!

Robert (bOBA)

[bOBA]

The "Penny licks" from the same collection. Four near identical pieces. At least part moulded glass. Up the stem of the glass is a mould line. Presumably this would help guarantee exact amounts of ice cream! As far as I have read, although excellent on so many aspects of British Glass, Hajdamach on British Glass 1800-1914, barely discusses ordinary drinking glasses and things such as this. I am guessing c.1870? (I should buy a copy of Mills for the rummers but have just spent Waterstones vouchers on other glass volumes, his book not being found there).


Robert (bOBA)

[Paul S.]

hello Robert  -  I suspect that Tim Mills book is available only from him direct, via the link shown earlier in this thread.

Nice collection of licks - they seem mostly to have this general shape - there appears not to be a great deal of variation.      Looking at my few, some are without any visible seams (vertical) - some have two mould lines - but can't say I've seen any yet with more than two lines.           Assume you're speaking of the horizontal lines  -  although I personally wouldn't have thought that these had any connection with the capacity of contents  -  I've always assumed that these things were simply filled level with the rim  -  I can't imagine there was remotely that the buyers would get any guarantee of an exact amount of ice cream.                   Most licks are without any decoration, other than a feeble moulded attempt at an imitation collar or merese where the bowl joins the stem.

You may be correct about the date you're suggesting  -  not easy to assess in view of the lack of book information on these things - other than to say that those pieces showing a Y or T mark (left by the shears when severing the pontil gob from the underside of the foot), will probably date to somewhere around 1870 ish to perhaps the end of the C19.           Apparently they were banned in London due to the assumed problems connected with tuberculosis, but may have continued in use elsewhere for some time..........     maybe those with an entirely moulded shape date more to the end of this period.

I've attached pix of two of mine about which I'm not sure  -  always possible that some salts might be confused with licks.    The taller example has a typical lick shape to the inside of the bowl, and might be a 4d or 6d lick (pre-decimal Sterling)  -  what do you think?

[Ivo]

Koch isolated tuberculosis in 1882; Cornet published on the nature of the spreading disease in 1888 - and the big scare came in 1889. Exit penny licks.

[Paul S.]

thanks Ivo - good to have some technical info. which might help with dating these things.