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Author Topic: Cameo glass lampshade, Riedel?  (Read 1882 times)

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Offline flying free

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Cameo glass lampshade, Riedel?
« on: January 15, 2014, 07:42:13 PM »
I originally assumed this to be French or Belgian. It was bought many years ago by the previous owner in Austria.  I now think it might be by Riedel.  It should hang the other way up to the pictures.
Measures about 18cm drop by 11cm wide.
Acid etched background in a pattern.  The flowers and leaves are cut in one layer deep pink back to clear.  All gilded but I couldn't get the pics to show the gilding at all well.  The edges of the cameo cuts are gilded around the cut edge, not just on the flat top of the pattern.
Any help much appreciated.
many thanks
m

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Offline Mike M

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Re: Cameo glass lampshade, Riedel?
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2014, 06:08:49 PM »
yes a nightmare. It could be

Riedel
or
Baccarat
or
St Louis
or
VSL

all claimed this 'cameo' technique - I heard it suggested the solution is in the background patterns -each being unique to a maker -but I've never managed to make sense of them.

I've also heard it suggested that the St Louis ones were on Baccarat made blanks

Mind you it wouldn't surprise me if all were made by Riedel and then sold to the other companies. (if anyone wonders why I pick that - its simply that they are probably the lowest cost producer (at the time) - and I have seen some in their design books -only the odd pages in the books alas)

M

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Offline Ivo

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Re: Cameo glass lampshade, Riedel?
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2014, 10:44:30 PM »
VSL is my first thought.

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Offline flying free

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Re: Cameo glass lampshade, Riedel?
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2014, 03:29:33 PM »
Very long post caution  ;D  but only because I've added a lot of links (all to signed/marked or labelled pieces only) at the bottom

There were many other items but not marked so I didn't include them.  None matched the same acid etched background as mine or the decoration either, and many were wrongly id'd as far as I could see matching them to id'd signed/marked or labelled pieces. 

Thanks Mike and Ivo :)
 
Mike, from what you’ve said, and from what I’ve seen I can see they are very hard to pin down.
I can understand that Riedel might have supplied other makers with ‘blanks’ because they had a period, again from what I read, where lighting of various sorts was a major focus for the company.

But it’s a strange thing, I’ve looked at countless versions of cameo (goblets, ewers, vases etc.) with acid etched background, from VSL, Baccarat and Saint-Louis and none of them matched or even ‘felt’ quite right.  None matched the design spirit, or the design or the acid etched background, or even the way it has the intricate edges and cutting on the flowers.  I couldn’t put my finger on it but I didn’t post a request for id before now because I’d just not found anything that was a viable comparison…until I stumbled on the Riedel cameo pieces.  The way the design is laid out on the shade, the symmetry of the design, the way it is executed and cut, and the gilding even, just has so many more similarities with the Riedel pieces than any of the three above.

I’ve attached links to many varieties from St-Louis, Val St Lambert and Baccarat – none match in any way. 
I can’t see the backgrounds on your pieces on your site (gorgeous as always!) but those are the ones that have the same spirit of design as my vase.  http://www.manddmoir.co.uk/phdi/p1.nsf/supppages/moir?opendocument&part=11

Harrach also did have some vases with this patterned acid etched background (pages 326/327 Harrach From Neuwelt to the Whole World) and some of the pieces on Gilded Curio have similarities with the cutting intricacy, but again, none are quite right or  match the background . 

I’ve added some different pics of the faceted knop on the bottom of the shade just for interest and one showing better the gilding.
Also for further resources links below to comparisons to evidence my comments above.
As a start point, my heart is saying Riedel at the moment :)
M :)

Just some examples for others to compare (obviously this is just a very small sample but they are representative of the signed or marked pieces I’ve found so far):
-   Marked Val St Lambert acid etched background, one ‘flat’ layer of cameo in blue
http://www.rubylane.com/item/649246-CG-119/C-1910-Signed-Val-St
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/4974412
http://www.antiquehelper.com/item/303183
http://www.antiquehelper.com/auctionimages/23302.jpg
http://www.burchardgalleries.com/auctions/2011/dec1111/01images/l165.htm
http://www.antiquehelper.com/auctionimages/23303.jpg
http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/pair-of-val-st.-lambert-cameo-glass-vases.-the-48-c-715c15198e
Flat smooth acid etched background marked Val St Lambert:
http://www.nealauction.com/archive/0404/lot/lottext/0201-0300/0274.html
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/cameo-vase-signed-val-st-lambert-1900-219056277
Unmarked being sold as Val St Lambert (possibly St Louis ? ):
http://www.trocadero.com/stores/Suzanne/items/1162622/item1162622.html

-   Marked Saint-Louis has an acid etched design background and the similar, flat, one layer cameo with gilding
-   http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/10727983_french-st-louis-cameo-glass-vase
-   http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/5292140
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/10727983_french-st-louis-cameo-glass-vase
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/8224747
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/20717568_a-st-louis-cameo-glass-vase-height-8-12-inches
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/5715075
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/422677
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/1010674
-   Marked Saint-Louis but only one colour over textured acid etched backround
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/20931938_french-st-louis-vaseline-cameo-glass-biscuit-jar
-   Marked Saint-Louis vase one layer over acid etched background, floral gilded.  http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/8224747
-   Cameo signed shade Saint-Louis – acid cut back half moons as per the vase above
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/55884-a-st-louis-art-nouveau-double-overlay-c
two more Saint-Louis shades – both have different backgrounds – not the same as mine
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/83757-saint-louis-acid-etched-lampshade

-   These are marked Baccarat
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/2440138
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/5872193
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/19936322_rare-antique-baccarat-acid-ground-cameo-glass-vases
http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/15423/lot/3535/
http://eliseabramsantiques.com/glass/vases-tazzas-compotes/pair-baccarat-vases-pink-and-green-cameo-decoration
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/6869590
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/10311877
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/16473360_early-baccarat-acid-ground-cameo-glass-vase
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/9641997
Baccarat with paper label
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/22480477_baccarat-cameo-glass-and-bronze-vase-with-floral
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/8599609
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/5090872
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/8016963
Apparently marked to inside of lid but hard to read the mark on the metal
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/20885505_rare-and-unusual-baccarat-cameo-glass-biscuit-barrel
Baccarat biscuit barrel and matching catalogue item
http://www.rubylane.com/item/1025844-Prf-Btl-75/Antique-French-Baccarat-crystal-glass
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/233061349439710401/
This were sold as Baccarat but seemed to only be marked ‘Depose’
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/10186520

sold as Riedel - unmarked showing a variety of similar design features –Riedel was not marked as far as I know.
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/4985288
not possible to see the background texture on these
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/5373557
Different kind of glass but has the symmetry  in design
http://www.invaluable.com/catalog/viewLot.cfm?afRedir=true&lotRef=a82e724b5b&scp=c&ri=501

selling as VSL but actually signed Val and I think this might be Verrerie d’art Lorraine not VSL.   I thought I’d include it has it has some similarities in that it is one colour flat polished cameo and the gilding and design  has (very vague) similarities.
http://www.rubylane.com/item/649246-CG-116/C-1910-Val-St-Lambert?utm_source=thefind&utm_medium=productfeed

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Offline flying free

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Re: Cameo glass lampshade, Riedel?
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2014, 05:03:57 PM »
an addition to my long post above (my computer's on a go slow so I couldn't amend before the modify button left)
I queried the last vase because in Cappa page 326 one very similar is shown under Le Verreries d'Art Lorrain
m

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Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Cameo glass lampshade, Riedel?
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2014, 06:24:22 PM »
The Reidel cameo box at the very bottom of Mike's page there has a background texture very similar to your shade, m.

http://www.manddmoir.co.uk/phdi/p1.nsf/supppages/moir?opendocument&part=11
Cheers, Sue M. (she/her)

‘For every problem there is a solution: neat, plausible and wrong’. H.L.Mencken

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Offline flying free

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Re: Cameo glass lampshade, Riedel?
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2014, 06:57:09 PM »
Thanks Sue - I was trying to get a clear pic of it enlarged but still couldn't work out if it had the concentrics pattern device on it.
The other similarity( as on Mike's bowl and box as well) with the Riedel pieces, and not that I could find on other makers, is that the pattern design stems from the base ground colour and joins to it (on mine the ground pink colour is solid all round the fitter rim and up the curve of the shade, gilded on the edge and the pattern joins this ground in each quartile)
more examples of this:
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/4985288  ( in this case the solid colour uncut runs around the top edge of the vase)
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/5373557
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=55375.0;attach=146312;image
m




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Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Cameo glass lampshade, Riedel?
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2014, 07:09:21 PM »
The patterns look very similar to me - sort of abstract fingerprint-y. :)
Cheers, Sue M. (she/her)

‘For every problem there is a solution: neat, plausible and wrong’. H.L.Mencken

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Offline flying free

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Re: Cameo glass lampshade, Riedel?
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2014, 07:18:47 PM »
'sort of abstract fingerprint-y'
 that's a perfect description :)
m

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Offline Mike M

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Re: Cameo glass lampshade, Riedel?
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2014, 06:24:06 PM »
phew that's a lot of links and actually some really wonderful glass

I just have some very random thoughts:

I seriously doubt quite a few of the signatures and most of the paper labels - having said that I think many of the signatures and labels have been added to 'correct' pieces. (Baccarat labels are rife in France added all over the place - I've found them on wildly inappropriate pieces, definite Baccarat pieces and on definite Riedel -the labels are always the same strange 'aged' colour) 

Some of the St Louis and VSL  are patterns I'm pretty sure are right (blue irises etc) oddly though some of these pieces are on blanks I'd associate to only Baccarat (perhaps the tale of Baccarat blanks being sold to St Louis/VSL is true) -of coursed it was usual for 'journeymen'  glass makers to move between the three companies - I'm told.

Much of the Riedel you've found is from well know and well documented sources (but maybe other pieces are too I just might have missed them)

In summary I'd only say - this stuff is wonderful - but we are seriously lacking in good research on the area -many of the French books I've seen are doubtful.

Sorry you can't see the background patterns on my website (low res for easy web loading) - some time after my next bunch of fairs I'll try and post some close ups (don't hold you breath - but you are allowed to nag)

Sorry I can be more help now!

Mike
 

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