Topic: spiral cut glass Georgian Victorian Edwardian? wine glass help please

[brucebanner]

Hello there, i have been pondering over this glass for a while, and after listening to a lot of you describe glass i'm still stuck, this glass appears to have a manufactured rim, it has no damage to the bowl at the expense of the very large foot which has lots of chips and i'm wondering if it's been recut as a result, it has a lovely ring to it and the stem has been cut and very uneven, it's 4 inches in height 2 1/2 inches across the rim and 2 7/8ths across the base.

[Paul S.]

not entirely sure I understand the term 'manufactured rim'  -  but going on the idea that this implies something that is 'made', then are we speaking of a cut/ground/bevelled/polished rim??                  If so then it might suggest a Continental piece rather than British.          A typical fire polished rim might suggest this was from anywhere, but it then might lean more towards British.

Isn't there always something you've never seen before        this step/prismatic cutting (common on early C19 decanters) which seems to rise from the foot and continue uninterupted to half way up the bowl, is a new one on me on a drinking glass such as this.         According to Andy McConnell, 'prisms were the defining cut of the second Regency period of glass cutting c.1810 - 1820'  -  of course if this one isn't cut then I've just wasted a paragraph.
Most of the decorative features on this piece - the relief diamonds, the vertical blazes, the prismatic cutting (if that is indeed what it is) are, as you probably know, all types of cutting from the early C19, although the multi-radial star (does it have 32 points?), was apparently something that originally dated to c. 1840 - 50.

Feet that are larger in diameter than the bowl rim indicate first third C19 (and earlier), generally.           Features like wear, stones/seeds/colour/lack of symmetry etc., might help to date, as they often do.             You say that it rings, so presumably a good quality lead glass construction by the sound of it (forgive the pun).

You'll never find the maker, obviously, and it this were a genuine piece it might be early to mid C19 in date, but it seems an oddity to me, and would be very interested in hearing thoughts from those who have more knowledge of drinking glasses.

[Paul S.]

sorry, it's obviously not remotely a 32 point star  -  forgot to count the arms.      I'm never entirely sure about pieces with masses of arms like this  -  and it's also worth remembering that houses like W/Fs, Walsh, E. & L. copied all of these Georgian/Regency styles, during the 1920 - 30 period.

[brucebanner]

Thanks Paul, the rim seems to have a lip all the around like a modern glass would, perhaps this is what you mean by" flamed rim", it's definitely cut, the edges are sharp, i've put some more pics of the stem and bowl up and one showing the rim, i can see two tiny white particles within the glass that have raised the surface of the glass causing tiny bumps.

[Paul S.]

this could be the blind leading the blind...............             as far as my limited knowledge goes, after the rim has been cut with shears (you can sometimes see the blip where this starts and stops), this area is re-heated to fire-polish the rim (makes it rounded so to speak).       
I think this is what I'm seeing on your glass, and it seems to have a slightly everted rim (an impression of widening slightly at the very top of the rim).
The alternative process of grinding and bevelling the rim is, I believe, more of a Continental habit, and leaves the rim with a flat profile on top  -both edges of which are then very slightly bevelled, and this, obviously, is a cold process.

You might try improving the contrast in your pix by using a very dark grey or black background  -  it does help with these clear glass items, which are difficult to photograph at the best of times.

I did panic after my first reply having too late noticed your comments in the subject heading saying 'spiral cut', but in view of your most recent pix that appears not to be the case, and this does now look like standard prism/step cutting.            Would think the white seeds should add weight to this having some age  -  but unsure how much.

Fairly sure I'm unable to add anything more of use - let's hope someone else can add to this enquiry.

[chopin-liszt]

It's the rim that is really confuddling me.
It looks like a mass-produced, factory made, contemporary, heat finished rim.

Which is completely incongruous with the rest of it. 

[brucebanner]

Thats what i thought about the rim, i'm going to post another glass with ref to Paul's comment on a black background to see if it picks up the details better, feedback would be good as my old laptop is showing it's age and i promise this will be my last new topic  today.

[Antwerp1954]

It is certainly an interesting glass with a plethora of features. Too many? Just a suggestion - could this piece have been produced to demonstrate a grinder's skills? A test piece perhaps?

[Paul S.]

that thought did occur to me  -  certainly a possibility  -  this prismatic cutting is so OTT on a smallish drinking glass.

[chopin-liszt]

I had wondered that briefly myself, but it struck me that a mass-produced factory blown blank would not have been substantial enough to take all this cutting.

Are heat finished rims (like this one) ever seen on old glasses? Perhaps it's because we're looking at photographs a well-done by hand heat-finished rim looks like contemporary mass produced?
Is it glass, or crystal?