Topic: Cut Glass Decanter/Ewer - Victorian?

[RoyJ99]

Bought this for £1 at a car boot sale, heavy piece of glass with what appears to be a polished pontil and star cut base. Am I right in calling this a lens cut decoration? Also would this be Victorian or later.

Loving the forum and learning so much from all the posts.

Thanks

[brucebanner]

Looks like a late Victorian water jug, 1890's?. at a guess.

[RoyJ99]

Thanks Bruce, that was the date that I had in my head as well. Found a few similar lens cut decanters that are advertised as earlier however the decor seem to be a bit more elaborate.

[Paul S.]

Not, I don't think, a ewer.............those tend to have wider mouths, and substantial lips, and don't have a stopper.
As a generalization pieces with handles are jugs, and those without are decanters............but as with everything there are exceptions.          You can have whiskey decanters that have handles, and claret jugs with either stoppers or metal lids  -  in fact the extent of variation is surprising.
As you have a lip, then I'd suggest either a claret jug, carafe or water jug.

It's possible you are missing a stopper  -  are there any circular wear marks within the neck - is there a scratched 'matching No.' somewhere in the area of the lip/neck - if this did have a stopper originally, then the same No. would have appeared on that.

I'm unable to see the pontil mark to which you refer  -  usually, the scar would have been removed when cutting the star  -  however perhaps I've missed seeing the mark.

In my opinion, the cutting on this looks to be.............         hollow diamonds on the neck and oval printies/punties on the main body, with patches of cross hatching around the waist.

One of the down sides of collecting glass - especially traditional shapes that have a long history  -  is that patterns/designs have been copied ad infinitum, so then you have to look at other issues to assess age.
Most decanters with some age have staining or tide marks - base wear should be pronounced if this were C19, and all those arrises between the ovals would have less than perfect sharpness as they are the first point of contact with other objects.                     The cutting here doesn't look especially age related i.e. it doesn't show any specific period to me, and I'd suggest first half C20, but that is only my opinion.
I believe that the term lens cut refers only to circular cuts, but I could be wrong on that point.

But for a quid you can't really go wrong, and if you work the boot sales regularly you should find a stopper that will have a reasonably acceptable fit, even if not the right match of cut.  

P.S.    Chris - what in particular makes you think Victorian c. 1890?

[RoyJ99]

Hi Paul, thanks for your extremely concise reply.

I have checked and there are a few marks inside the neck which would suggest a stopper however I cannot find any number. What I was trying to explain with regards to the base is that it appears that the base has been polished down before the star cut was done as it has a slight concave shape to it and there seems to be quite extensive wear marks on the base, difficult to capture this on photo but will try tomorrow to show you what I mean.

[Paul S.]

hello Roy.              When folk here use the word pontil they are implying, usually, that there is either a scar visible (sharp and rough), or that there is a ground polished depression where the scar was removed.

The suggestion that this might date to c. 1890 may well be correct  -  as you can imagine it's very difficult at times to be accurate with such matters.         In truth this might be anywhere from 1870 to 1930  -  and things such as wear, colour, stones, sharpness of cutting etc. etc. can helps sometimes with being a little more accurate.

[petet63]

It is a nice piece, I like it, if you want to double your money I will do that for you  .    As Paul suggested, look around and a stopper will turn up eventually. Try to get the internal diameter as a guide. I bought a few before I found one I needed, usually for the same price as your decanter, but got a good match eventually.

[brucebanner]

When i looked at this Paul i just thought Victorian 1890's, i think i'm going on a recent cruet set iv'e picked up with similar diamonds in the neck, looking again do you think the handle looks Deco, very similar to the water jugs that are everywhere, i have a few silver collared bits with the same criss cross pattern dating between 1895 and 1910, i'm no expert, i'll put a pick up on this post and show the diamonds that may be getting me confused, this was a bit more expensive than this jug at 4 quid complete and undamaged.

[Paul S.]

regarding the ewer/decanter.............             the handle doesn't look particularly art deco, and the body and decoration don't have the simplictiy of that period either.           Looking again at the cutting on the neck, think I'm seeing hollow hexagons (six sides) rather than diamonds  -  but whichever, they are both cutting styles which originated in the second half of the C18  - showing just how long a life some of these features had.            Sometimes called scale cutting (as in fish).                However, styles can overlap by many decades making dating imprecise.

The cruet set is attractive, and I'm assuming the silver has been worn off completely judging by the colour, so probably EPNS  -  could even be worth getting it re-plated.           It's in a style common from around the 1860's almost to the Edwardian period, and so your assessment of the age of the decanter - based on the similarity to the cruet set - may be correct.
If you collect glass from the second half of the C19, then you'd benefit from getting a copy of Silber & Fleming.         A reprint of catalogues of household goods of both British and imported goods (including masses of glass) fashionable during the last quarter of the C19.
As you say, it's easier when these items are of Sterling silver, since hall marks provide some method of dating the accompanying glass, even if not correct to the exact year.

The maker of the metal will no doubt be different from the glass maker, so care needed not to assume they are connected, other than in date.           If this metalwork is marked, it's just possible you might run down a maker and possibly a guide to date.

[brucebanner]

Ok thanks Paul I'll get copy and swot up a bit .