Topic: Stevens and Williams acid etched mark S Fleur-de-lis W and Boxed ENGLAND under

[flying free]

I apologise, I've asked this question on another thread but thought it probably needed it's own thread 

I'm trying to find a recorded start date for the production of Stevens and Williams Alabaster range.  I've seen a quote from Jackson for 1914 and in The Crystal Years there is a reference to this date, but it does not state that was the date production was started (page 24).  So for example in The Crystal Years it has some preamble about the company in the lead up to talking about Alabaster then goes straight on to say ' During the 1914 alabaster period, several colours - blue ...  were all made.'  That is the first mention of date.  It does not read to me that the production of Alabaster started in 1914.  It reads to me as though he wasn't entirely sure about the actual start date of the production of Alabaster


I have now attached a photograph of a piece I have with this mark on.

Does anyone know what the timeline is for Stevens and Williams using this mark please?
'S- Fleur-de-lis - W' with England written underneath.

In Charles Hajdamach's British Glass 1800-1914 the mark is shown and the caption reads
'Faint acid etched mark with the fleur-de-lis between the initials S W on a slender green alabaster vase with white alabaster foot, late 19th century, in the Broadfield House Collections.'
Firstly the mark he shows also has the word ENGLAND underneath it although that's not mentioned.
Secondly, I'm thinking late 19th might be a bit early? or is it?

In Cyril Manley's book Decorative Victorian Glass (1988) he shows registered Trademarks and dates and this one (the one shown in CH British Glass and the one shown on the bottom of my vase) is shown as registered
'21 July 1902
reg number 247,653
Stevens & Williams
Brierley Hill Glass Works 

Decorative art-glass manufacturers'
Manley says at the beginning of that chapter on Trade Marks 'In some cases a trademark was used as long as 15 years before being registered, ...'

thanks
m

[Lustrousstone]

I think that it is marked England should help to narrow it down; it became a legal requirement to mark exports to the US with country of origin. The info is on here somewhere

[flying free]

Thanks, yes now you've mentioned it,  I'm sure I've read it in one of Craig's threads on the marking of Czechoslovakia on pieces.
I'll have a look around.
m

[flying free]

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,36725.msg200080.html#msg200080
this post from Craig says that post-1914 law in the US required pieces to be marked 'Made in...' although he goes onto say that large quantities of Czech glass are found dating later than that period, which are just marked Czechoslovakia, not with the 'Made in ...', if I read it correctly.

My mark ( the same as the mark in CH book on a piece of Alabaster) doesn't appear on this list here (see link below), but there are marks on there dated later than 1914 that don't say 'Made in...' on them. hmmm.  That's a bit irritating   I was hoping my mark might help date the Alabaster.
http://www.great-glass.co.uk/glass%20notes/marks-s.htm

I've seen the same mark as mine on the set of Alabaster plates I put this request on on another thread, and also on another piece of Alabaster, as well as the one in CH's book, and my piece.  I've not found it elsewhere.
m

[Lustrousstone]

However the 1930 tarrif Act says

Except as hereinafter provided, every article of foreign origin (or its container, as provided in subsection (b) hereof) imported into the United States shall be marked in a conspicuous place as legibly, indelibly, and permanently as the nature of the article (or container) will permit in such manner as to indicate to an ultimate purchaser in the United States the English name of the country of origin of the article. The Secretary of the Treasury may by regulations—
(1) Determine the character of words and phrases or abbreviations thereof which shall be acceptable as indicating the country of origin and prescribe any reasonable method of marking, whether by printing, stenciling, stamping, branding, labeling, or by any other reasonable method, and a conspicuous place on the article (or container) where the marking shall appear;

[flying free]

Thanks

However,  that doesn't mean the mark on my vase couldn't have been used earlier. Manley has given an actual registration number and date for that particular mark just as it appears on my vase, including the word England in a lined block, of 21 July 1902.

I think what I'm trying to establish is, was Alabaster produced before 1914 and was hoping the mark on my vase would help.  But even that seems confusing now  - too many sources to cross reference 
m

[Lustrousstone]

Trademarks don't generally contain a country name, so I suggest that the trademark is the fleur de lys alone. However, there is no record of it in the UK trademark database, though the number is right for the date. I don't know whether that means it was never granted or that the records have been lost.

[flying free]

I'm trying hard not to read the Manley script but rather just look at the pictures, but I thought that might be the one thing that could be correlated 
Thanks for checking for me

m

[flying free]

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,46591.msg263155.html#msg263155
The dates for Stevens and Williams Alabaster have been lurking as an irritant for a long time obviously
m