Topic: gadget impression on drinking glass foot

[neil53]

Hi, I don't think gadget marks are that uncommon.  Most penny licks and late 19th century rummers that come my way have a gadget mark on them.  (Peter, I'll dig one out for you and bring it to Birmingham in May).

[catshome]

Rather than start a new topic, I thought I would add my glass here as it is very similar to the one in Paul's original post.

11.5cm high, 6.5cm rim and foot diameter.  192g.  Fairly thick and almost flat base.  T-shaped shears mark.  Bubbles in glass and visible striations around the upper half of the ovoid body.  Baluster stem with what appears to be an applied foot.  Thick, grey tinged glass.  Poorly finished rim.

Taking everything into consideration, especially the wear marks to the rim, I think this is a Victorian tavern glass 1860-1900.  I believe glasses used to be stored on their rims in pubs.

I wondered if the colour tells us anything else?  Pictured below beside a clear glass for comparison.

[catshome]

base

[Paul S.]

taking good pix of clear glass can be very difficult - regret I'm not seeing the gadget mark, but would agree with other comments.      Suspect the colour is nothing untoward, and might simply be a result of the fact that the metal on this example is thick - as you'd expect on a pub glass - thereby making for rather more of a dull or grey tone, than had the glass been thin as with the drawn stem piece.        On that one is the fluting moulded or cut?

my limited knowledge seems to recall that apart from drawn stem drinking glasses, where the stem is drawn down form the bowl material with the foot applied separately - making a two piece glass - almost all other traditional drinking glasses are made in three parts  -  bowl, stem and foot - with the bowl rim finished last, hence the pontil scar or polished depression where the foot has been held on the rod.
'Straw stems' might be an alternative name for drawn stems -  I don't collect such pieces now so hope I have that correct.         Put me right please if I'm wrong.

[catshome]

Paul, please confirm you whether you can see the big T on the second base shot......I took loads and really thought I'd nailed that one!  It's a drawn stem, for sure.  It is quite a dirty grey looking piece and stands out amongst the rest of the glasses I've unpacked so far.  I wondered if it might be Flint glass, although I haven't looked into that yet.

I didn't comment on the fluted glass......it was just there for colour comparison.  Will be posting some of those later for help.

Thanks as always for looking and commenting.

[Paul S.]

sure, I can see the big T (sounds like a ranch) - but shears marks are on the underside of the foot and not, as with gadget marks, on the top side - at least it's seen on the top of the foot on the piece I've shown here.

Are you using the word 'flint' to suggest that the silica for such a glass might have started life in the form of flints, rather than sand?   I stand to be corrected, but would have thought that sand had been the source material for a very long time now.
John reminded me recently that W/Fs use of the word was part of the official description of the company's range of clear glass, and was associated mainly with their lead glass production  -  apparently also used for soda production  -  but wasn't used to imply that the source of the silica had been flint.         There are many reasons for colour variation in glass, though I seem to recall reading that the Italians, who did used pebbles and flints, made glass of very good clarity.

Drawn stems are amongst some of the most elegant in appearance.

[catshome]

The big T is on the underside of the foot......so shears mark?  It only matters in terms of it being potentially useful for dating purposes.

I should have looked into the term Flint glass sooner.  CMOG has it as a "misnomer", following George Ravencroft's "use of calcined Flint as a source of silicate" in 1674.  Apparently ithe term started being used in C18 and C19' for lead glass that did not even contain Flint.  I must have seen it used inappropriately somewhere, and it stuck in the memory.

There are a lot of fine bubbles, particularly in the thicker stem and base (visible in some pictures), would this be indicative of soda glass.  My whitefriars soda glass pieces are very light weight.

Just had a penny drop moment about your original post.  The mark you refer to is on the top of the foot......hence a gadget mark, and less often seen.  Wish we had a "forehead slap" emoji lol.

[oldglassman]

 Hi, I think a little clarity is needed , the T mark you refer to is the shear mark , created when the blob of hot glass was applied to the bottom of the stem to make the foot ,after which it was probably held in a gadget ,(foot gripper) which enabled the blower to detach the glass at the bowl end from the blowing iron , the gripper on occasions can leave ghostly marks around the upper edges of the foot,

Flint glass is an archaic term which should really be abandoned though still used a lot in the US to refer to lead glass, the use of flints to make glass in England was primarily in the late 18th c and was a long difficult and expensive process, very quickly given up in preference to good quality sand.
Hope this helps ,

looks like you beat me to it !!!!!!

Cheers ,

Peter.

[Ekimp]

I can’t add anything on catshome’s glass but think I have an example of gadget marks from another form of gadget, other than the ‘C’ shaped type. I am sure I have read somewhere (but can’t remember where) that another form of gadget clamped the upper side of the foot on top of the glob of glass where the stem is attached to the foot (rather on the top surface of the foot itself).

I have a set of three small tavern rummers that have marks that I believe are from this type of gadget, as shown. The dimensions and locations of the marks are the same on all three glasses although it is more difficult to see on one, and easy to miss in any case. The marks look like a slight depression with a deeper divot at each end (indicated by the divider tips in the photograph). On the opposite side of the stem is another similar mark parallel to this, but slightly longer. You can just about see both marks when looking through the foot. It looks like these marks were made by clamps, one each side of the stem. The glass also has the ‘T’ shear mark.

[catshome]

Brilliant Ekimp!  Although very hard to spot, I can see the two dents with a small bulge between them on one side, and barely perceptible two pin pricks with a longer space between on the opposite side.  You'd really have to know what you were looking for, to realise what they are.  Your description made it possible to spot them.  Thank you!