Topic: Molineaux Webb cut glass pattern 8208/9

[neilh]

Picked up this example of an 1860s Molineaux Webb cut glass dish / comport, which is identical to one purchased by the Manchester Art Gallery in 1977 when they bought the company pattern books and some family glass pieces for the museum.

It comes from the last of the five pattern books - Book 3 - and is probably late 1860s in date. This particular pattern straddles two numbers, 8208 and 8209, for no obvious reason that I can see - a few other designs, not all ruby cased, also get this number. It must have been part of a set as there is also a sugar and basin, a honey with lid, a butter with lid, two types of finger bowl, and a deeper bowl partway between a comport and a basin, all illustrated with the same pattern. There is also a wide comport in this style but without the ruby casing.

[Paul S.]

great find Neil - very nice piece indeed.

As you'll know, these comports/stands were popular around this time, and the pressed glass Rd. designs show lots of rims decorated with  Greek Keys, beads and mitre splits like this cut example.
MW registered quite a few pressed designs with these features, although having looked through my Kew images for the 1860's I was unable to see any pieces (from MW) showing what looks vaguely like this Celtic/Norse interlocking belt pattern - which I assume is cut, as might be the knop on yours.
Unlike the keys and beads etc., this particular pattern looks to be quite rare.

However, something I thought a coincidence - and perhaps a case of plagiarism (by someone) - is the fact that James Derbyshire & Bro. appear to have Registered a design for a footed basin of sorts, with this same interlocking pattern, plus mitre splits on the rim, in December 1864  -  No. 182248.
Their name doesn't appear on the drawing sent to the B. of T., whereas MW's name almost always does appear, but I've checked Slack and Thompson and this is definitely a JD No. 

If it's of any interest, I can add Kew pix of MW designs that might be thought to be related to your comport/stand.

[neilh]

Hi Paul, thanks but I already have all the Manchester registrations from going to Kew a few years back. I had forgotten that the Derbyshires had a similar pattern on one of their pressed items. As far as I know, MW only used this pattern on this particular cut set - whereas they used variations of the Greek Key on dozens of cut sets along with several pressed items.

It's very difficult to find any cut pieces which one can match up with the pattern books with confidence - I am averaging about one piece a year.

[Paul S.]

Neil - I can't see this shape in my pix from the Kew archives for M. W. Registrations in the 1860's, but it looks to be from the same source as your stand - although you don't list a shape such as this in the other items you mention under this design.          The ruby rim is definitely cut and not pressed.
No marks, and about 6.75" tall (170 mm) with good quality ground/polished pontil depression under the foot.

Grateful for your opinion please.

[neilh]

I can't find any examples of a Molineaux Webb glass in that shape. If that had been goblet shape though it would have got a tick, as they did a water jug and matching goblet with a ruby rim similar to that.
Alas the pattern books are not comprehensive and I'm sure there must have been other manufacturers dabbling in that style...

[Paul S.]

thanks for looking  -  I'm not entirely sure of its intended purpose - but with that cutting on the rim I don't really see it as a drinking glass.

I'll put it to one side for the time being and see if any more information turns up.