Topic: help requested for i.d. of concentric paperweight. baccarat?

[sussexglass]

mid sized concentric with atypical 'roses?'. saw a concentric with centre canes same on French dealers website which he described as classic baccarat. unable to match the other canes. just over 5cm diam. usual concave base with edge wear. top probably polished. appreciate any thoughts at all from members about this pwt.

[Nick77]

Definitely not Baccarat to me, not even sure I see anything that could be classed as a rose, I'd say more likely St. Mande but it does seem to have been polished to an an odd shape.

Nick

[sussexglass]

 many thanks Nick, I think its possible you are right. googleing for st mande came up with a part copy of the 1999 PCA bulletin, with some st mande canes as researched by George Kulles. one of these closely resembles the first proper row of 7 canes, but i can find the original bulletin online, to get a better quality image, and don't have his book on the subject. 'Rose' was the best i could come up to describe the 15 canes in the penultimate row. i don't have green fingers I'm afraid! apparently there is another pca article by another author, exploring a link between st. mande and clichy. i will leave that for another day. thanks again for pointing me in a better direction.

[tropdevin]

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Hi.  I agree with Nick - most likely St Mandé, possibly Grenelle.  The same man (Charles Bredgen) was involved with paperweights and rose canes at both these factories, and Clichy as well I think.

Alan

[sussexglass]

Thanks Alan, I wondered if you have the pca bulletin as the copy on Internet was too fuzzy to properly see the St Made canes or alternatively the book on the less familiar by George Kulles to wrap this up. Incidental, yesterday, i got a sulphide on frit ground Belgium? as sulphide made from army badge. Put on amb soon. Many thanks for your help.

[tropdevin]

***

Hi.  I do have that PCA Bulletin, and George Kulles' book, and there is no doubt that the canes in your weight are very similar to some in Grenelle paperweights (I don't like to use the word 'identical'). Whether it is Grenelle rather than StM is hard to judge, as although authors try their best to be accurate, there is always some uncertainty with lesser known factories.

I collect any paperweight books I can find, as the older ones are often fascinating - though they are quite often misleading too (as they present speculative or 'received wisdom' material as 'established fact').  George Kulles, who is relatively modern, accepts that there are a few errors in his books - it is a fact of life that new information turns up, and old ideas have to be revisitedand revised.

Regarding the badge weight on frit, many are indeed Belgian rather than Paul Ysart - there is a thread on GMB that discusses some of the examples.

Alan

[sussexglass]

 Alan, many thanks indeed for your comprehensive review. looked at badge/frit listings as you suggested and found something very similar under 'old royal scots pwt' but will post mine in next couple of days. regards Dudley